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Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

mobile.reuters.com

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Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#211

Post by justinclift »

rebelos wrote: post #183
JoshTriplett wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the major players in the industry just weren't ready for it That's an excellent reason to do it.

That's a very cavalier attitude given how much of the consumer app ecosystem depends on ad revenue to survive. Having it drop precipitously over a very short span of time could trigger a chain reaction that might ultimately reduce the availability or utility of apps for consumers. It will also disproportionately harm the long tail of app developers. I detest tracking just as much as anyone else here but I'm skeptical…

Lots of "mights" and "coulds" there. Evidence please. :)

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#212

Post by Nextgrid »

WoefullyInept wrote: post #163

I cringe reading the deluded opinions from people in this thread that clearly do not understand the impact on the app ecosystem, let alone how ad tech works. I'd liken it to reading a post on mumsnet.com with 100+ middle aged women arguing about 5g.

As far as I'm concerned adtech is a cancer on society that is wasting enormous amounts of people's time for dubious value (even if we assume that ads "generate" money to pay for services, how much of that money is wasted by the overheads of the advertising industry/business model itself?) and has corrupted many industries (before advertising and the idea of "engagement", who would intentionally build a world-scale cesspool that uses algorithms to intentionally encourage hatred and misinformation?).

If adtech collapses, a lot of scum will go out of business and will be replaced by something more lean that people would be happy to pay for (a social network can easily operate on $1/month/user). Nothing of value will be lost.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#213

Post by Nextgrid »

Yetanfou wrote: post #168
njitram wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ads will definitely not disappear, only the tracking aspect. It will be more contextual ads probably, related to what page your are looking at, less related to you as an individual.

Ads have effectively disappeared for a number of years now for those who use a sensible approach to ad blocking (i.e. a combination of ingress blocking, DNS blacklists and browser-based blocking). This could change if content providers start using different approaches to ad insertion - e.g. video ads merged into the original content, ads as part of original page content - but even those avenues will be neutered withi…

> video ads merged into the original content

That is already a thing and there are already countermeasures: https://sponsor.ajay.app

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#214

Post by Nextgrid »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #83
ramraj07 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what have we gained from it? Toxic unconstrained social networks, more methods to make everyone feel uglier and worthless, endlessly consume random crap without producing anything of value, and robotic hamburger making shops that no one asked for and are somehow IT related?

This site, for one, is funded by job ads. No one forces you to use it, or any other "toxic" site that makes you feel "ugly and worthless". If you think the entire web (or the entire ad funded web) is toxic and makes you feel "ugly and worthless" what are you doing here?

I don't think anyone would have a problem with advertising if all advertising was as respectful and unobtrusive as HN's job ads.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#215

Post by Nextgrid »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #87
loceng wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By your logic the conclusion is that the modern web is heavily cancerous, which arguably it is. There are other ways to pay for innovation and tools, to be preventative-proactive so cancer can't exist or at least not thrive.

Clearly those unspecified other ways aren't working well enough, or ads wouldn't be so dominant.

The problem is that the advertising way is "cheating" in the sense that its victims are not aware they're being exploited; otherwise this article wouldn't have been written and the proposed UI change (which aims to shine light on what the advertising industry is doing with your personal data) wouldn't cause such an uproar.

There are areas where a totally "free market" doesn't work in the long-term benefit of society and regulation typically steps in. This is why for example health and safety is a thing (even though not caring about that would make businesses more profitable) or that in most civilized countries you are not allowed to dump toxic waste in the river even though it's cheaper than paying to have it recycled.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#217

Post by dragonsky67 »

Yetanfou wrote: post #168
njitram wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ads will definitely not disappear, only the tracking aspect. It will be more contextual ads probably, related to what page your are looking at, less related to you as an individual.

Ads have effectively disappeared for a number of years now for those who use a sensible approach to ad blocking (i.e. a combination of ingress blocking, DNS blacklists and browser-based blocking). This could change if content providers start using different approaches to ad insertion - e.g. video ads merged into the original content, ads as part of original page content - but even those avenues will be neutered withi…

In most cases I find direct ad insertion (as in ad sponsership of the creator) a lot less offensive than some algorythmetic insertion based on some unknown metric. At least then the creator has to decide if the ad they are running is acceptable in their product.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#218

Post by bryan_w »

shajznnckfke wrote: post #142
lilyball wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like Apple's advertising targeting isn't using the same info that they're trying to withhold from third parties though. I actually have it off on my device so I can't see what the "View Ad Targeting Information" says (if I turn it back on, it says I have to wait 24 hours before it has the info to show me), but from the description it does show, it sounds like the ad target uses "account information and inter…

Facebook’s big ad business on mobile is advertising to install apps. That’s also Apple’s ad business on mobile (ads shown on Apple News, and in the App Store itself). For Facebook to show attribution of ad conversions, they must do tracking “across apps” (from their app where the ad was clicked, to the advertiser’s app). For Apple to do the same attribution, they can call it “interactions with Apple services”, becaus…

What's crazy is that these are supposed to be complementary effects. The more apps that are installed on Apple's platform the more money that Apple makes, but apparently that's not enough for them.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#219

Post by shajznnckfke »

bryan_w wrote: post #218
shajznnckfke wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook’s big ad business on mobile is advertising to install apps. That’s also Apple’s ad business on mobile (ads shown on Apple News, and in the App Store itself). For Facebook to show attribution of ad conversions, they must do tracking “across apps” (from their app where the ad was clicked, to the advertiser’s app). For Apple to do the same attribution, they can call it “interactions with Apple services”, becaus…

What's crazy is that these are supposed to be complementary effects. The more apps that are installed on Apple's platform the more money that Apple makes, but apparently that's not enough for them.

Once way to think of this is as an effort get a greater than 30% cut on the App Store. One of the things I’m supposed to be purchasing with that cut as a developer is discoverability. If users search for my app by name and somebody else’s app comes up first, it starts to feel like 30% isn’t getting me the full offering.

Now, I might go buy some ads from Facebook, because they provide a good value there. In the future, my only choice will be Apple, who won’t have to compete on price anymore because they cornered the market.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#220

Post by [deleted] »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #190
rebelos wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very cavalier attitude given how much of the consumer app ecosystem depends on ad revenue to survive. Having it drop precipitously over a very short span of time could trigger a chain reaction that might ultimately reduce the availability or utility of apps for consumers. It will also disproportionately harm the long tail of app developers. I detest tracking just as much as anyone else here but I'm skeptical…

I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of ad-based apps (without IAP of some kind) make less than $0.50 lifetime revenue on average from 90+% of users. Some quick checking suggests that the median total revenue for most apps is close to $0. Most apps would probably win out if they said "turns out ads don't work, would you be willing to pay $0.99". Even if they lost users, they'd gain revenue. Whenever an unsust…

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