Why we are suing the Administration • Hacker News Board

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#211

Post by fvv » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 1:23 PM UTC

awkward wrote: post #196

fvv wrote: post #147

I think that free world should ban every company that comply with china censorship, here we are not talking about something like explicit content, or violence censorship which belong to cultural differences, here we are talking about not being put in jail because you say publicly that tibet should be free. or because you try to report abuse and suppression of the ruling class this type of free speech should be guaran…

It's the paradox of tolerance. How do you tolerate a platform that doesn't conform to your idea of tolerance? How do you distinguish that censorship from, say, Marvel rewriting Doctor Strange to remove Tibet?

it is the paradox of those who do not think and think that all things are the same and therefore that a terrorist in america is the same as one in egypt, one in tibet, one in hongkong and one in china, I am not here to explain all these things if you try to change the subject at the moment I don't have time, if you want to talk about something else ok, but I don't have time someone else will answer you, if you talk about other similar things, these things are not the same thing, one sanctioning by means of a ban on a company that censors is not the same as censorship itself. as the incarceration of a person carrying out kidnapping is not the same thing.

At least as right and wrong are not the same for most people at least. And even if in some countries right and wrong are reversed, don't believe that even those who live there don't realize it.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#212

Post by dhagz » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 1:24 PM UTC

fvv wrote: post #147

I think that free world should ban every company that comply with china censorship, here we are not talking about something like explicit content, or violence censorship which belong to cultural differences, here we are talking about not being put in jail because you say publicly that tibet should be free. or because you try to report abuse and suppression of the ruling class this type of free speech should be guaran…

> here we are talking about not being put in jail because you say publicly that tibet should be free. or because you try to report abuse and suppression of the ruling class

Or, you know, just practicing a certain religion or being from a specific ethnic group[0].

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#213

Post by dkn775 » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 1:25 PM UTC

dahfizz wrote: post #174

throwawayinfo wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh... in some parts of the US there is still a stigma against being LGBT. Grindr being foreign owned means opening up the possibility of people (who aren't ready to come out) being blackmailed. And that's clearly a national security threat and different from wanting data profiles on everyone.

> that's clearly a national security threat and different from wanting data profiles on everyone. What's the threat model here? Certainly ousting LGBT people is scummy, but I'm not sure I understand how it jeopardizes the security of the nation. You could argue that the ability to blackmail government officials compromises national security, but lots of things in that "data profile" could be used for blackmail. I don…

I would imagine that if someone is hiding some use of the Grindr app from their S/O, they can be blackmailed. It would be particularly evident due to the location and photo-based tenants of the service. That is exactly why they ask the questions they do on the counterintelligence polygraph

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#214

Post by pwinnski » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 1:25 PM UTC

User23 wrote: post #208

phkahler wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hate to say it, but the terrific first amendment in the US only applies to the government. Companies and individuals can kick you out for saying things they dont like. There are laws against certain kinds of discrimination by companies, but those are not the first amendment. Just wanted to clarify that so we dont pretend companies are upholding constitutional rights on a regional basis. They are not accountable to it…

Congress and state legislatures can and should fix this.

Should fix... how? Companies should be compelled to provide a platform for free expression, and forbidden from removing any content, no matter how objectionable?

It's unclear to me what you're suggesting.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#215

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 1:25 PM UTC

badRNG wrote: post #28

Regardless of what you think about TikTok, the banning of an app in the interest of "national security" is largely unprecedented. The jump from banning Huawei from building critical public infrastructure to banning an app that hasn't even conclusively been proven to behave in any uniquely dangerous ways seems to be an intense, unjustified escalation of this conflict. [1] You may disagree with me on the strict securit…

[deleted]

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#216

Post by baxtr » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 1:26 PM UTC

mcny wrote: post #175

fvv wrote: post #147

I think that free world should ban every company that comply with china censorship, here we are not talking about something like explicit content, or violence censorship which belong to cultural differences, here we are talking about not being put in jail because you say publicly that tibet should be free. or because you try to report abuse and suppression of the ruling class this type of free speech should be guaran…

> here we are talking about not being put in jail because you say publicly that tibet should be free Expel Spain from the EU. Economic blockade. Whatever it takes. At least the UK held a referendum on Scotland. Fake promises and all but we can't jail dissidents just because they try to form a separate country in today's world.

A bit of context would surely help to put this comment into perspective.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#217

Post by baxtr » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 1:27 PM UTC

fvv wrote: post #147

I think that free world should ban every company that comply with china censorship, here we are not talking about something like explicit content, or violence censorship which belong to cultural differences, here we are talking about not being put in jail because you say publicly that tibet should be free. or because you try to report abuse and suppression of the ruling class this type of free speech should be guaran…

Sounds like "fight fire with fire". Who defines which part of the world is "free"?

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#218

Post by Tarq0n » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 1:27 PM UTC

throwawayinfo wrote: post #132

Tarq0n wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's definitely an element of this at play. This was stated pretty explicitly in the case of Grindr, a dating app for gay men. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/28/us/politics/grindr-china-...

Eh... in some parts of the US there is still a stigma against being LGBT. Grindr being foreign owned means opening up the possibility of people (who aren't ready to come out) being blackmailed. And that's clearly a national security threat and different from wanting data profiles on everyone.

You could infer the sexuality of a large number of people on Reddit / Instagram / Facebook if you had their data, so the same risk is present there.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#219

Post by ISL » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 1:29 PM UTC

baxtr wrote: post #217

fvv wrote: post #147

I think that free world should ban every company that comply with china censorship, here we are not talking about something like explicit content, or violence censorship which belong to cultural differences, here we are talking about not being put in jail because you say publicly that tibet should be free. or because you try to report abuse and suppression of the ruling class this type of free speech should be guaran…

Sounds like "fight fire with fire". Who defines which part of the world is "free"?

The part where you can speak your mind without consequence from the government.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#220

Post by throwaway122378 » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 1:30 PM UTC

phkahler wrote: post #202

fvv wrote: post #147

I think that free world should ban every company that comply with china censorship, here we are not talking about something like explicit content, or violence censorship which belong to cultural differences, here we are talking about not being put in jail because you say publicly that tibet should be free. or because you try to report abuse and suppression of the ruling class this type of free speech should be guaran…

Hate to say it, but the terrific first amendment in the US only applies to the government. Companies and individuals can kick you out for saying things they dont like. There are laws against certain kinds of discrimination by companies, but those are not the first amendment. Just wanted to clarify that so we dont pretend companies are upholding constitutional rights on a regional basis. They are not accountable to it…

I'm sick of this response. These social media companies individually can reach billions of people with the ability (proven) to sway their thoughts and emotions (see Facebook, WHO, Reddit). Free speech must apply to public forums like this