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Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

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Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#211

Post by Polylactic_acid »

meditative wrote: post #174
Polylactic_acid wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its usually less that they are ok with these problems and more that the alternatives have even more problems. Most OEMs copied apples designs so everything is shit. Rather than taking your laptop to the local apple store you now have to send it off to china and face all the same problems. Windows also isn't useful for productivity and linux is only viable for certain jobs.

> Windows also isn't useful for productivity Can you expand on this? I think it's the contrarian position to be taking here.

There are so many anti features in windows. They seem to change all the time and depend on what version of windows you have but the main ones are forced updates that can't be done while you use the computer, MS teams poping up and nagging you to sign up when you never installed or use it, adverts in the start menu, dark patterns in the setup page making it tricky to not register a microsoft account. And whatever flavour of the month anti feature windows includes.

Its getting slightly better with the the new WSL but its still not as good as OSX and linux.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#212

Post by Polylactic_acid »

chromedev wrote: post #182
Polylactic_acid wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its usually less that they are ok with these problems and more that the alternatives have even more problems. Most OEMs copied apples designs so everything is shit. Rather than taking your laptop to the local apple store you now have to send it off to china and face all the same problems. Windows also isn't useful for productivity and linux is only viable for certain jobs.

I use Linux fine and it is a requirement that I be able to run Linux before accepting a job. When it comes to Android though, they already allow external apps through a security permission that I use for F-Droid and sometimes other apps outside of F-Droid, like Kodi on my Fire TV.

I didn't say it wasn't fine. I use it as well but I work in one of those jobs where it works fine. You aren't going to use linux if your job is video editing or CAD.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#213

Post by ghostwriter »

stale2002 wrote: post #205
ghostwriter wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, the market has not spoken. Because Apple will sue you if you try to do independent repairs, without going through them. can't you just avoid Apple and buy phones that are easier to repair? That's how market works.

> can't you just avoid Apple and buy phones that are easier to repair? That's how market works. It is absolutely not a market if Apple is suing people for engaging in voluntary trade. You can feel free to not support markets, if you don't like. It sounds to me like you do not support free markets. But please do not pretend that it is a free market, when Apple is literally suing people, for engaging in voluntary trade…

> But please do not pretend that it is a free market, when Apple is literally suing people, for engaging in voluntary trade regarding devices that they own.

In a free market, if a company acts inadequately, you stop any interaction with it, you stop providing service to its customers, and go to its competitor or create your own competing platform, and try to get as many customers with you as you can.

Please do not pretend that the market is Apple alone, and that you have no other choice but to demand the government to take an action against the company whose policies and actions you don't approve of, it's a very infantile position to hold and it hurts the free market that you seem to care about. Free market has never meant "expect a fair play from everyone", it means that there's enough economic clout and capital out there to drive unfair competitors out. And if you appeal to the government's monopoly on physical coercion, you are not acting as a proponet of free markets.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#214

Post by p1necone »

notimetorelax wrote: post #149
p1necone wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the difference between actual professional equipment, and "pro" aspirational marketing for consumer devices.

I don’t know, I guess you can have different definition of PRO. Yours is more about a fleet of devices that’s easy to maintain for a corporation or a school.

Easy repairability is as important for freelancers as it is for larger businesses.

The anecdote that I was replying to seems to be about a freelancer (or at least a very small business - see "bought 3 or 4 machines over a period of a few years"), not someone maintaining a fleet of devices.

My definition of "pro" is just "uses device to make an income".

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#215

Post by stale2002 »

ghostwriter wrote: post #213
stale2002 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> can't you just avoid Apple and buy phones that are easier to repair? That's how market works. It is absolutely not a market if Apple is suing people for engaging in voluntary trade. You can feel free to not support markets, if you don't like. It sounds to me like you do not support free markets. But please do not pretend that it is a free market, when Apple is literally suing people, for engaging in voluntary trade…

> But please do not pretend that it is a free market, when Apple is literally suing people, for engaging in voluntary trade regarding devices that they own. In a free market, if a company acts inadequately, you stop any interaction with it, you stop providing service to its customers, and go to its competitor or create your own competing platform, and try to get as many customers with you as you can. Please do not pr…

> In a free market, if a company acts inadequately, you stop any interaction with it, you stop providing service to its customers

No, actually. Those customers should have the right to deal with whoever they want. That is how free markets work. They work by not having the government go after people.

> and go to its competitor or create your own competing platform

Or, instead of that, those customers, who own their own devices, should be allowed to do whatever they want with things that they own. That is a free market. Get government out of the way, and don't allow Apple's lawsuits against people.

> that you have no other choice but to demand the government to take an action

It is not me who wants the government to do something. Instead, that is Apple. Apple is the one who is using the government to engage in physical coercion against people.

I want Apple to not have the right to sue people. Government needs to get out of the way, and Apple needs to stop using to government to fight against free markets.

A free market would be the government ignoring Apple's lawsuits against other people.

> And if you appeal to the government's monopoly on physical coercion

Lets get rid of that government monopoly and coercion by removing Apple's ability to sue these people then!

I agree. Lets not use physical coercion. And the way that we do that, is to not allow Apple to use the government to go after people.

> Free market has never meant "expect a fair play from everyone"

I don't want fair play from Apple. Instead, I just want them to not have the ability to use physical coercion against others, by them using government backed forced against others, through their lawsuits.

> it hurts the free market that you seem to care about.

You are the one who is trying very hard to ignore the real physical coercion that Apple is using against others, through their government backed, and government supported lawsuits.

Lets get rid of that. All of the lawsuit and physical coercion that Apple is using against other people should be thrown out, and the lawsuits that Apple is using should be completely ignored by the government.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#216

Post by brirec »

kyriakos wrote: post #206
jwandborg wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you take vacation the next time your laptop breaks?

I'm not an apple fan and never owned an apple laptop but, even with other brands unless you buy their enterprise models (e.g. dell latitude, lenovo thinkpad) with the appropriate warranty you won't get same day hardware support in most of Europe. And even with onsite support with Dell I had a case when the battery died completely and the laptop could only work when plugged in, they did show up at the office, they che…

> unless you buy their enterprise models (e.g. dell latitude, lenovo thinkpad) with the appropriate warranty you won't get same day hardware support in most of Europe.

This is the case in the US as well, but I think it should be said that Apple is trying to compete with those classes of computer, not low end consumer grade models. I don’t know if I’d say they’re doing particularly well, but most of why Apple computers are so expensive is because they are designed to last and work well for business.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#217

Post by anoncake »

chromedev wrote: post #46
formerly_proven wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This level of customer-hostility would cause a huge uproar for any other "Pro" or "workstation" vendor.

Apple fans seem okay with this and also not being able to install apps outside the app store.

Apple "fans" are less bothered by this than they would be bothered by the problems of the alternatives. Or they are locked into the ecosystem.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#218

Post by anoncake »

robertoandred wrote: post #56
maire wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal should be self repair. I want the manuals and parts so I can make my own repair.

And then someone will mess up the repair and blame Apple for a malfunctioning device or demand they fix it for free.

And I demand a pony.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#219

Post by addicted »

kyriakos wrote: post #206
jwandborg wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you take vacation the next time your laptop breaks?

I'm not an apple fan and never owned an apple laptop but, even with other brands unless you buy their enterprise models (e.g. dell latitude, lenovo thinkpad) with the appropriate warranty you won't get same day hardware support in most of Europe. And even with onsite support with Dell I had a case when the battery died completely and the laptop could only work when plugged in, they did show up at the office, they che…

With other brands you can get 3rd party repairs done on a much quicker basis.

Heck, HP and Dell publish freely available technical manuals that you can look at and fix the device yourself.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#220

Post by ghostwriter »

stale2002 wrote: post #215
ghostwriter wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But please do not pretend that it is a free market, when Apple is literally suing people, for engaging in voluntary trade regarding devices that they own. In a free market, if a company acts inadequately, you stop any interaction with it, you stop providing service to its customers, and go to its competitor or create your own competing platform, and try to get as many customers with you as you can. Please do not pr…

> In a free market, if a company acts inadequately, you stop any interaction with it, you stop providing service to its customers No, actually. Those customers should have the right to deal with whoever they want. That is how free markets work. They work by not having the government go after people. > and go to its competitor or create your own competing platform Or, instead of that, those customers, who own their ow…

> No, actually. Those customers should have the right to deal with whoever they want.

They shouldn't, a notion of rights does not include any material implementation of these rights for you by other people. If you disagree, then please make sure that I deal with Tesla and SpaceX on my terms next week, because I definitely want it.

If you find that Apple acts as an abuser in an abusive relationship, you just cut all ties with the abuser. I've never heard of anyone suggesting a victim that "they should have a right to continue living with that person" or that "there's a right to coerce the abuser into the comfortable co-living with the victim".

Again, free market doesn't imply absence of unfair practices. It implies that there's no force that is able to chain you to the abuser.

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