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How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

deprocrastination.co

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Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was daunting for me too. I had a series of private evaluations in London, and the proxy I used was to seek a consultant psychiatrist (just about as senior as they come) who had a longstanding relationship with his local NHS trust (hadn't jumped from one area to another), looked him up on the GMC (registry of doctors in the UK which would report malpractice or other issues), and asked for a telephone consultation…

hi george thank you for your response here and elsewhere in the comments. i have found them very helpful. i did indeed just reach out to a friend who recommended i talk to my primary care provider (PCP) and go from there. now that i'm looking into all this, mental health is a luxury in america. sessions are approx $200/visit here in san francisco.

It's relatively expensive in the UK too (my initial diagnosis was close to £1,000), but I believe the benefits are very noticeable.

Here is what I might do if I wanted to cap at $400 (assume $400 is two hours) before finding out whether I need to do any more.

Before I book the appointment:

1. Find the most commonly used clinical assessment tool[1] and commit to undertaking it, with a specific emphasis on any corroborative components (i.e. friends and family who have known you for years helping to share experiences of you in childhood)

2. Research qualitatively: e.g. read essays from people who have had diagnoses and treatment and see how much of it chimes with you.

3. A useful experiment I did was to go to the ADHD subreddit and, ignoring the ebullient teenage blogger-type posts, make a list of posts and experiences which closely correlated to my own.

4. Write down your own summary of your experience and why you're seeking some help. Not necessary ADHD-specific, but what are the things you're aware of that you want to improve on in your life? What are the consequences you experience from those areas?

At the appointment:

1. Explain that you are aware diagnosis of most conditions requires a multi-stage evaluation from a psychiatrist, and that you am committed to taking the process seriously but have concerns about both the cost (hence doing a lot of research and being very organised, which runs contrary to some people's expectations of ADHD!), and the risk of getting a doctor who simply writes prescriptions without a second thought.

2. Tell the psychiatrist that you would like a preliminary recommendation from them on whether it's worth continuing with assessment and/or treatment after two sessions, and you'd appreciate it if they could do their work as methodically as possible but sensitively to the fact that you don't want to initially deploy more than $400 to the task.

3. Share with them that you have researched DIVA or another clinical assessment for ADHD because it feels like the symptoms of that chime with you, and you wanted to be sure it was worth your time coming in at all.

4. Tell them you're giving them this information because you don't want them to think you're doing stage management or trying to score some drugs, and commit to letting them run the session from there.

5. They will likely ask you to explain what has motivated you to attend in the first place. What 'thing' happened to get you off your ass and into their office?

I think it's very probable that you can find someone who understands that this is a debilitating condition in many people and which also needs a sympathetic approach to diagnosis.

The other thing to remember is that there are multiple clinical assessments because many people have comorbidities and it requires unpicking. If that isn't the case for you then you don't need hours and hours of assessments.

Feel free to reach out on my email (in profile) if you have Q's or I can be helpful.

[1] E.g. in the UK it's DIVA https://www.advancedassessments.co.uk/resources/ADHD-Screeni...

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hi george thank you for your response here and elsewhere in the comments. i have found them very helpful. i did indeed just reach out to a friend who recommended i talk to my primary care provider (PCP) and go from there. now that i'm looking into all this, mental health is a luxury in america. sessions are approx $200/visit here in san francisco.

It is not that much better here in the UK for specialised things like mental health. My local private specialist for ADHD charges around £1500 for the consultation, and it is hard to justify risking that much money to just be told you're lazy.

I would avoid a specialist ADHD centre.

What you're really looking for (in my opinion) is a consultant psychiatrist (i.e. a senior, experienced psychiatrist) who supplements their NHS commitments with locum-style private practice work. (You know how you can use Babylon Health to speak to a real GP on the phone immediately for £10? And they can give you a prescription? Like that, but obviously clinical psychiatry requires meeting in person a lot.)

I think specialist ADHD centres run the risk of having a hammer and thinking every patient is a nail, if you know what I mean, and they also are geared up for the kind of deep clinical assessments which are often not required in adults (imagine the nightmare of trying to diagnose ADHD in a child with comorbidities).

Once you have titrated you can move from a private prescription to an NHS prescription which reduces ongoing costs significantly.

> just to be told you're lazy

Do the research into other people's experiences and think about your own downsides and consequences of e.g. inaction/inattentiveness/inability to focus. You can also check out the DIVA assessment which many psychiatrists will use. A good psychiatrist will also cut through the crap and tell you whether they think it's likely you have ADHD early in the process. They do not want to glean hundreds of pounds for you in order to say "Yup all fine here!".

Ping me on email and I'll share specifics of my consultant.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#213
post #198

It’s clearly not the case for everyone, but I struggled for an extended period of time with a few things in my personal and professional life: 1. Remarkable focus in topics which interest me and remarkable lack of focus in topics which do not. 2. Leaving “must do” tasks in areas of little interest until the very last moment, resulting in a predictable lack of excellence in execution. 3. Periodic deep dives into topic…

Very well written! Recently I was diagnosed with severe ADHD. The struggle finally became too much. Perhaps the effects of the health crisis on my work and finances gave me the final push, I don't know. My life is so much more enjoyable now I am medicated and have had some very minimal therapy. In hindsight all the tricks and strictness I forced onto myself to be able to keep up were very unhealthy, unsustainable, an…

So glad you're in a better place now. This:

> To anyone else struggling: Just make that appointment and find out what's up. Even if it doesn't turn out to be ADHD these people can help you get so much more out of your life. Nothing ventured nothing gained, right?

Is great advice and lots of people reading this thread are emailing me to say how supported they feel by hearing others' stories. Nice one for sharing.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#214

Fogg has some good thoughts on positive behavior change. James Clear, who wrote Tiny Habits, is another good person in this space who writes reasonable stuff. Self-plug for an overview on research into the habit formation literature that I recently cleaned up. Covers many evidence-backed interventions (of varying quality) for habit formation and removal. https://mlu.red/52436366310.html

Just a small clarification "Atomic Habits" is the name of the book written by James Clear.

Also, Tiny Habits is another book which also discusses the same space.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#215

The human mind is far more complex than a lot of these models or frameworks suggest. A model or a framework can mean any structured representation, but I am explicitly talking about the market of psychological frameworks. The ‘supply’ of that market consists of pretty bad models that do more harm than good (e.g. Mindset by Carol Dweck, CBT, Fogg Behavior Model, or anything based on behaviorism). I don’t recall fully,…

Why are growth mindsets bad? Challenging yourself seems pretty common sense no, the idea that you can get there.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#219
Thanks.

This sounds like it might be useful. I'd seen the motivation equation before, but hadn't seen ability, cue.

In general, I like to think that a lot of common problems are easier to solve than to identify. I suspect a tough part of this is recognising when you're procrastinating.

I think the form of procrastination I encounter the most is the "lack of action from a lack of a cue". -- With programming, if there's some significant delay in getting feedback (build takes too long, tests take too long), I'll get distracted by other things without getting back into it.

Re: How to stop procrastinating by using the Fogg Behavior Model

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is entirely based on Fogg's behavior model. Your criticism isn't really addressing the article, it's addressing the model used. As for pain avoidance, that seems to be a part of the factor Motivation, which is divided into the sub-factors Sensation, Anticipation and Social Cohesion. I've found a number of sites explaining the model and they all have something like this to say about Sensation: > Searching…

This model doesn't seem to have ever been tested empirically. (I would be happy to be corrected on this point.) Given that, I think it's appropriate to raise doubts about its clinical effectiveness.

Doubts, sure. Asking for more evidence isn't a problem. But 1) blaming the author and 2) insulting him with something baseless like "I found the article to be really naive in a Dale Carnegie kind of way, that probably appeals to someone in their mid-20s trying to reinvent themselves, but is actually a psychological dead end" is a problem and needlessly adversarial.
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