Wage disparities do not necessarily mean that someone is treated unfairly. It is fair to pay people more (even a lot more) if they are more productive or they contribute in a higher-value way.
Blizzard workers share salaries in revolt over wage disparities
211–220 of 300 posts
Re: Blizzard workers share salaries in revolt over wage disparities
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm almost certain my pay is different from my colleagues, but I've bargained like hell to get it. When I was hired, every time we've been acquired. I'm no executive either, I'm just a developer with a proven history of give-a-damn. Whether or not pay discrepancies can be fair, this doesn't sound like a case of them being fair. What happens to your (hypothetical) colleague who gives just as much of a damn as you do…
On your first point - it is a completely idealistic worldview to believe that somehow, without effort everyone should be treated equally by everyone else, without any conflicts about boundaries, what you are worth etc. If you are not willing to fight for your corner, that is an issue with you. You can't expect the world to come to your rescue. This is just as true in relationships as in business. What happens when yo…
> it is a completely idealistic worldview to believe that somehow, without effort everyone should be treated equally by everyone else, without any conflicts about boundaries, what you are worth etc.
I welcome you to quote where I propose these things. We’re talking about whether or not one might still be paid unfairly despite asserting their boundaries and negotiating with effort.
It’s arrogant of us to assume that someone who gets the short end of a position (relative to their peers) wasn’t assertive or simply fought less. We just don’t know that, and assuming it in the presence of reasonable barriers (like homelessness, or just plain being offered less as a starting point) is myopic and cruel of us.
Re: Blizzard workers share salaries in revolt over wage disparities
#213I can't think of any good solution for this. The only way to get what you believe is a fair salary is by negotiating that directly with your employer or switching to another job that pays better.
Unless you are an executive, don't expect someone to give you huge salary increase for your performance. At best, even when your manager is very satisfied about you, (s)he is limited to the percentage range that is defined by HR for salary increase. Even if you get better title, the salary increase is still limited.
Re: Blizzard workers share salaries in revolt over wage disparities
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Law suits are expensive Don't know about the US, but in countries with strong (or existing) worker unions the unions would jump at that kind of case to help the employee with expenses, legal counsel, and what have you. Unions definitely have their problems, but keeping the employers on their toes about actually breaking the law is one of their big benefits. Of course all that doesn't help with all the other things…
A unionized workforce isn't likely to have this problem, since they would all be working under the same union contract being paid the same.
That very much depends on the type of union. For example, the union that exists for tech workers in the UK (https://prospect.org.uk/tech-workers/) provides legal support, advice and other professional help to it's members, but doesn't get involved in negotiation unless you ask, and even then they do it on an individual basis, based on your skills and employer requirements.
Re: Blizzard workers share salaries in revolt over wage disparities
#215So possibly unpopular point of view here, maybe not on HN, but I think pay discrepancies can be entirely fair. I'm almost certain my pay is different from my colleagues, but I've bargained like hell to get it. When I was hired, every time we've been acquired. I'm no executive either, I'm just a developer with a proven history of give-a-damn. I think it's perfectly fair game in a job where it's hard to replace individ…
I used to believe this too. You've acquired/developed negotiation skills, you should reap their rewards, etc.
But then I consider, I've seen many individuals who are such strong engineers AND communicators, and deliver amazing work.
Yet, I was constantly paid higher than them, simply because of my more aggressive/arrogant attitude.
Time has given me a different view. There ARE pay discrepancies that shouldn't exist, but do simply because of lack of information.
And companies fuel the idea that it's something we need to protect, from our fellow colleagues because we worked/earned those pay discrepancies.
But in the end, it's the company that benefits the most from those discrepancies. Not me and not you.
Re: Blizzard workers share salaries in revolt over wage disparities
#216Link to the spreadsheet?
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Re: Blizzard workers share salaries in revolt over wage disparities
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
^This. I've always had the philosophy that if you want to retain good employees, pay them more before they ask for more. If they have reached a point where they had to ask for more, they're probably going to leave soon. I don't understand how do companies fail to realize this. Say an engineer leaves because you didn't get him that 20% pay bump. Even in the highest ranks of engineering, that's like what a 100k? 30k-40…
They're betting, correctly I think, that most people won't actually bother quitting. So the costly scenario you're saying doesn't play out as much as you must think, and it's cheaper to let that happen occasionally and keep the rest underpaid
How does this align with turnover being so high at so many companies?
Re: Blizzard workers share salaries in revolt over wage disparities
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
^This. I've always had the philosophy that if you want to retain good employees, pay them more before they ask for more. If they have reached a point where they had to ask for more, they're probably going to leave soon. I don't understand how do companies fail to realize this. Say an engineer leaves because you didn't get him that 20% pay bump. Even in the highest ranks of engineering, that's like what a 100k? 30k-40…
It's basic economics. Everyone acts in their rational self interest, including your boss. Your boss doesn't get in trouble if you decide to leave. Your boss gets in trouble if his budget gets way out of control by giving promotions and raises left and right. On the converse, your boss doesn't pay the cost of hiring new people. It doesn't come out of his pocket. But giving 20% raises to everyone he has the suspicion o…
In every company I’ve worked in, a manager gets in much worse trouble if a good engineer reporting to them leaves rather than exceeding budget.
Most typically middle managers are not allowed to significantly alter budget for bigger raises that retain important people, yet are then punished or admonished over the comparatively worse budget loss taken through recruiting and onboarding to hire a backfill, as well as getting a reputation for being a bad manager if you can’t work miracles and retain people who deserve raises without giving them raises.
The economics don’t work out the way you describe at all, and few parties in the situation act rationally.
Re: Blizzard workers share salaries in revolt over wage disparities
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sadly your pay has little to do with merit, and more to do with perception, connections, face time and ability to handle office issues better than your cohort. It may well be, if not more likely to be, the other way round - you could be a GOOD performer, but since you can't or don't gork office politics, you are underpaid or even not at the level of challenge and seniority you should be.
If someone isn't being paid what they want, they should work hard to achieve that pay by making goals that will lead to compensation they would be happy with, prioritizing those goals and figuring out a roadmap to achieving them. Yes some people have a huge upper-hand in life, but that doesn't mean we can't figure out a way to make our own life better. Maybe not as good as others, but better than it is, and that's so…
My uncle once explained the best, and often only, way to negotiate a raise is get another job offer. Without it an employee has no leverage.
It would seem that most employers would rather bear the cost of replacing someone than increasing their compensation to align with the value provided.
Re: Blizzard workers share salaries in revolt over wage disparities
#220At risk of sounding like a mercenary, in my experience the only realistic way to get paid your market value is to be on the market. It's just way easier to get a pay bump by switching jobs. If you wait for your employer to give you a raise, they usually will drag their feet for as long as possible and then give you something disappointing. One consequence of this is, in companies that are willing to do it, it can be…
>The cost of recruiting and interviewing candidates, not to mention training new hires, is huge.
As a team leader let, I have been so frustrated with this. HR has no clue on how time consuming is to transfer context knowledge. There is a point where companies should do all in their power to keep people. But they fail to account for these types of indirect costs.