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Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

support.apple.com

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Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#211

Post by misterhtmlcss »

pletnes wrote: post #159
dividedbyzero wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe that's misguided and naive, but I pretty much trust my phone to protect me from bad actors taking over the camera; I'll have to trust the apps I use that have camera access to not spy on me, but those are few. Until relatively recently, any userspace app on my computer could freely access the camera and microphone, including background processes and malware, so that feels a lot riskier. There seems to be a perm…

My thoughts exactly. On my phone, I have to trust Apple. On my laptop, I have to trust everyone who wrote code I downloaded. That’s two quite different crowds.

Then you haven't seen all the malware and spyware on phone apps that have been approved by Apple and Google right? I don't trust anyone regarding my tech as far as I can throw them.

I could have a System 76 machine with latest xyz hacker proof Linux distro and I'd still assume all was heard and listened to through that device. Just makes no sense to trust any mass production device.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#212

Post by dabernathy89 »

duxup wrote: post #11

This seems like a pretty mild warning for folks who might stick a bulky cover on their camera and press down / pack their laptop tightly and now have wedged part of the screen open with the cover. I'm a fan of using painters tape.... pretty low profile, easily removed, stays on really well. Also the weird blue glow you get when the camera is on tells you pretty quick "Hey there's a cover on there" where sometimes wit…

It does not have to be a bulky cover. I used an extremely low profile webcam cover on my 2015 MBP for 3 years. I put a similar one on my 16" MBP, and it destroyed the screen after a couple weeks.

Specifically, this is the webcam cover I was using:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C24NBGL/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_T...

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#213

Post by soulofmischief »

chrisjc wrote: post #171
soulofmischief wrote: post #160

If you close your Mac notebook with a camera cover installed, you might damage your display because the clearance between the display and keyboard is designed to very tight tolerances. Doesn't this sound like an engineering oversight and not a user error? Why are camera covers not just part of the design? My phone camera physically retracts when not in use.

> because the clearance between the display and keyboard is designed to very tight tolerances. Sounds like engineering excellence to me. But I agree with you that there should perhaps be some kind of physical block/switch built in.

My Acer Chromebook 15, a budget laptop, enjoys similarly tight tolerances.

I think engineering excellence would be to incorporate a camera cover and physical microphone switch while maintaining these tolerances.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#214

Post by dabernathy89 »

hanniabu wrote: post #149
duxup wrote: post #11

This seems like a pretty mild warning for folks who might stick a bulky cover on their camera and press down / pack their laptop tightly and now have wedged part of the screen open with the cover. I'm a fan of using painters tape.... pretty low profile, easily removed, stays on really well. Also the weird blue glow you get when the camera is on tells you pretty quick "Hey there's a cover on there" where sometimes wit…

For the whole damage from using a camera cover thing, I simply bought as low a profile one as I could find and used a few small felt pads in the top 2 screen corners and next to the camera just outside the width of where the touch pad is (keeps pressure off the pad so the sensor doesn't crack).

I hope you have AppleCare+!

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#216

Post by randyrand »

hyko wrote: post #125

Here’s the document explaining how it’s physically impossible to use the microphone when the MacBook lid is closed: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/security/secbbd20b00b/... Where is the equivalent document explaining how it’s physically impossible for the camera to be active without the green LED lighting up?

Would be nice if they explained how the hardware worked.

Hardware is not free from bugs. Ask any hardware manufacturer!

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#217

Post by dabernathy89 »

reaperducer wrote: post #183

Looking at the comments here, I guess I'm the only one who finds sadness that Apple even has to publish this document. Some of those novelty and promotional camera covers are really quite thick. And it just seems like common sense to me that you wouldn't close a laptop with one of those things on. Just like I wouldn't close my laptop with a pen or a ham sandwich tucked into it. But I guess Apple has had enough compla…

This is the one that destroyed the screen on my 16" MBP. 0.023 inches thick.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C24NBGL/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_T...

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#218

Post by sologoub »

eugeniub wrote: post #155
sologoub wrote: post #66

Or Apple could just include a cover into the lid, like many other manufacturers already do. For example: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/c...

Apple: Not even in your dreams pal.

So true!

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#219

Post by dabernathy89 »

_bxg1 wrote: post #14

People are suggesting just using tape, but the issue is when you want to un-cover it frequently (which is probably more common now than a few months ago). For a couple dollars you can get a thin, nice-looking little plastic cover that you can actually slide out of the way when you need to use it. Most of these are thin enough not to be a problem, but they vary, and even the really thin ones usually don't quite let yo…

Don't even use the extremely thin ones unless you have AppleCare+. Not worth the risk of a $1,000 repair.

This one destroyed my screen completely:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C24NBGL/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_T...

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#220

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

the-pigeon wrote: post #196
alunchbox wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a reason Zukerberg's laptop has its mic and camera tapped up. It doesn't matter what device you use unless there's a physical switch to disconnect it'll never be safe. Software can ALWAYS have zero days, just because it hasn't been exploited yet doesn't mean it can't be.

But can't you specifically wire the indicator light to always be lit if the camera has power? I don't see Apple claiming they've done that but a correct design would make the indicator light work that way and be related to software at all. Meaning you could only disable the indicator light by physically modifying the device.

Sure, but can you guarantee any particular webcam wasn't intercepted and modified before being delivered?

Can you guarantee the manufacturer followed the design specification for every batch?

Threat models matter.

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