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CERN approves plans for a $23B, 62-mile long super-collider

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Re: CERN approves plans for a $23B, 62-mile long super-collider

#211

Post by LatteLazy »

vidarh wrote: post #181
LatteLazy wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take you're point, but this is all still entirely speculative as far as I can tell. Do we need it now? No but we might in 30 years! Or we might not. And there is no good reason to think we will. Particle physics has felt very tapped out for a while. And we still have the LHC and LHC upgrades to answer the few questions left Remember.

It may be entirely speculative (I don't know), but that is CERNs leaderships job - if they don't plan ahead and spend small amounts on design studies now and it turns out new hardware is needed, and they need to start a project from scratch ten years down the line, then that's potentially 10k+ people (CERN currently has 2.5k on staff, of which a lot are not scientists, and ~12k external "users") having their experime…

Sorry, I misunderstood your previous comment. I'm totally fine with them designing it and making the case for it. Actually having a good justification is a long way off imho. But a few mil for feasibility and a few more to work out what it could do is a smart exercise.

Re: CERN approves plans for a $23B, 62-mile long super-collider

#212

Post by [deleted] »

kashyapc wrote: post #77

I'd guess Prof. Sabine Hossenfelder (herself a physicist, and a Research Fellow at the Frankfurt Institute for Advanced Studies) must be pretty annoyed, to put it politely. She posits that a lot of current physicists are working with outdated notions of "beauty": (quote) But if it’s clear that putting forward new hypotheses just because they are beautiful doesn’t mean they’re likely to be right, then why do theorists…

[deleted]

Re: CERN approves plans for a $23B, 62-mile long super-collider

#213

Post by auntienomen »

kashyapc wrote: post #77

I'd guess Prof. Sabine Hossenfelder (herself a physicist, and a Research Fellow at the Frankfurt Institute for Advanced Studies) must be pretty annoyed, to put it politely. She posits that a lot of current physicists are working with outdated notions of "beauty": (quote) But if it’s clear that putting forward new hypotheses just because they are beautiful doesn’t mean they’re likely to be right, then why do theorists…

Dr. Hossenfelder is not a professor. I think it is poor practice to inflate her title when citing her as some sort of authority.

Re: CERN approves plans for a $23B, 62-mile long super-collider

#214

Post by maxnoe »

Scaevolus wrote: post #183
jeanvalmarc wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> failure of the LHC They detected the Higgs boson and incidentally invented the internet? https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/cern-searches-for-1st-web...

That was CERN in the 90s, not the LHC in the 2000s.

LHC planning, design and simulation studies began in the 80ties.

Re: CERN approves plans for a $23B, 62-mile long super-collider

#215

Post by simion314 »

aronpye wrote: post #178
simion314 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CERN invented the WWW, WWW lifted people from poverty like me that I work from a village in a third world country as a developer. Maybe the super magnets,detectors, software, mathematics and who knows anti-mater or black holdes could also have a similar effect as WWW. There is a lot of money in he world that is pent in entertainment industry so make a carbon tax or invent some economic mumbo-jumbo to grab a percent f…

I’ll grant you that HTTP and HTML technologies did come out of CERN, but access to clean water and a sewage system amongst other things is what lifted you out of poverty. It’s no good having access to cat memes if you’re dying from dysentery. Developed countries were out of extreme poverty long before the internet and WWW was invented. Besides, issues like climate change and resource contention will disproportionatel…

Clean water, sewage, central hearing etc are not free, without a good paying job there are still people that have the toilet outside, do not have running water and use wood for heating.

So is a combination of more factors like local economy and government to grow and build roads,bring internet and natural gas but you also need the individuals to afford paying for those. The web helped a lot and if you see the remote working that is happening now you can't deny that CERN had a giant contribution. 1

Maybe the issue is not that CERN proposes this things but the fusion guys are not united in a big collaboration as CERN is.

Re: CERN approves plans for a $23B, 62-mile long super-collider

#216

Post by maxnoe »

booleandilemma wrote: post #146

Non-scientist here - do existing colliders like the LHC become useless, or can they still be used to make new scientific discoveries?

No, as you can see in the drawings, the old accelarators are always integrated as pre-accelerators into the chain, feeding the next larger ones.

LHC will feed this new accelerator, this is why they intersect at two points.

Re: CERN approves plans for a $23B, 62-mile long super-collider

#218

Post by nix23 »

adventured wrote: post #144
9OzUIvDwF4LvfUM wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't relevant. CERN isn't a US government project and the US doesn't provide funding. The cumulative budgets of the EDA member states €223 billion in 2018[1]. [1] https://www.eda.europa.eu/docs/default-source/brochures/eda-...

> CERN isn't a US government project and the US doesn't provide funding. That's news to US taxpayers, which have provided money to CERN projects for decades, including LHC. Half a billion dollars for LHC was considered a lot of money back in 1997 (when US GDP was ~37% the size it was in 2019). 2008: "On Monday, the Department of Energy and the National Science Foundation announced that the United States has completed…

Cern is European, the counterpart in the US are fermilab, they are highly knitted together.

Re: CERN approves plans for a $23B, 62-mile long super-collider

#219

Post by foxyv »

gumbo wrote: post #162
foxyv wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So $23 billion over 40 years that would make it about 50 million a year. Just a few million more than what the US military spends on viagra.

You mean ~500 million.

Woops! 500 million is correct. Thank you!

Re: CERN approves plans for a $23B, 62-mile long super-collider

#220

Post by erulabs »

take_a_breath wrote: post #205
erulabs wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, crowds don't have opinions. People do. There in no hypocrisy when a group disagrees with itself - it is just people disagreeing with other people.

Crowds, of people, absolutely have opinions. It's the entire foundation of politics, business, and entertainment. What is a political party platform other than a series of opinions?

Well, _people_ have opinions, and therefore a group _contains_ opinions, but a group itself is incapable of thought - and therefore of forming opinions itself. A political party, like any other group, is simply a big pile of individuals who happen to fly the same flag. Disagreement between them is not hypocrisy of the group.

    Man is not the member of one group only and does not appear on the scene of human affairs solely in the role of a member
    of one definitive group. In speaking of social groups it must be remembered that the members of one group are at the same
    time members of other groups. The conflict of groups is not a conflict between neatly integrated herds of men.
    It is a conflict between various concerns in the minds of individuals.
    Ludwig von Mises - Theory and History
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