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Apple sends a letter to Hey: Change your app or get out of the App Store

protocol.com

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Re: Apple sends a letter to Hey: Change your app or get out of the App Store

#211

Post by fierarul »

qeternity wrote: post #199
fierarul wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are trying hard not to understand the message. The laws change to fit what people consider right. What Apple is doing might be almost legal but it is not right and laws can be written to spell this out for them and others. Computing should be declared a human right and selling mass produced general purpose computers without allowing anybody to deploy any desired software on that computer should be illegal.

You may not like Apple, but I think it’s quite a leap of faith to declare computing a “human right”. You want an experience with an Apple product that Apple doesn’t provide, whether you agree with it or not. Where do we draw the line? Should we force all vegan restaurants to serve meat? Surely if computing is a human right, then food is as well and thus I’m entitled to the experience I want as a result. Apple would a…

Some country was thinking about declaring Internet Access a human right. I think computing should come before that.

The scale of any company should invite extra scrutiny from the state. Apple is at a scale where it has massive societal impact, it's not the burger joint down the road.

It would be trivial for Apple to add a toggle allowing users to switch from 'walled garden' mode to something more permissive.

On macOS you can install any software, or from identified developers or from the App Store and I don't see macOS users screaming they can't manage without their walled garden.

Why wouldn't iOS allow any installs from identified developers or from anywhere?

Re: Apple sends a letter to Hey: Change your app or get out of the App Store

#212

Post by oauea »

megous wrote: post #206
oauea wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do I run xcode on Linux or Windows?

In qemu.

Is this legally possible without software piracy? Can you link me to instructions? Does apple have documentation anywhere?

Re: Apple sends a letter to Hey: Change your app or get out of the App Store

#213

Post by stephenr »

majewsky wrote: post #197
stephenr wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They provide all the infrastructure to deliver the iOS app binary, receive notifications, etc.

Only because Apple set it up like that. For example, you could presumably have an app store that is only a lightweight directory of signed URLs and hashes, where the developers have to host the blobs themselves.

They could do any number of things, and that might affect what they charge.

But they do what they do, and they charge what they charge. The comment I replied to, said Apple provides no infrastructure. That is categorically false, and thus I replied.

Positing alternate realities where they might operate differently isn't really a relevant response, IMO.

Re: Apple sends a letter to Hey: Change your app or get out of the App Store

#214

Post by horsawlarway »

Redoubts wrote: post #200
horsawlarway wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor... . Literally this exact issue - MS was locking Windows to IE as a browser.

Windows had 90% market share then.

Yes, and between Android and iOS, Apple and Google have captured ~98% of global the smartphone market in 2018.

Apple accounts for roughly 47% US market share to Google's 52%. Apple's app store generated 33 billion of the total 57.4 billion in revenue in 2018, with Google taking the rest.

They both operate app stores in very similar models, and both of them clearly need attention.

Just because two competitors happen to be splitting the profits from abuse doesn't make it any less of an issue.

I wish them the best while operating a distribution and marketing channel. I think it should be entirely illegal for them to prevent other channels from being created and installed on their systems.

To be clear - this is the definition of cartel behavior. They both operate walled gardens precisely because they know it makes a 3rd party breaking into the market an astonishingly small possibility, and they have both carved out a marketing strategy in the US that mostly doesn't overlap.

Re: Apple sends a letter to Hey: Change your app or get out of the App Store

#215

Post by IncRnd »

hyko wrote: post #160
IncRnd wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Apple has a minority share of the smartphone market, so antitrust does not apply. That's literally an Apple to Oranges comparison. Market share is not a requirement for illegality under the Sherman Act, as an example.

This made me smile :D

:)

Re: Apple sends a letter to Hey: Change your app or get out of the App Store

#216

Post by IncRnd »

simion314 wrote: post #155
IncRnd wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's absurd. The app store is not a service to developers but to consumers that Apple uses in order to have a working ecosystem.

As a consumer you have no choice to use a better AppStore, or to grab your apps/movies/music and move to a better provider. So IMO Apple is doomed to be regulated, maybe it is not to late to be more fair with the developers.

I absolutely agree.

Re: Apple sends a letter to Hey: Change your app or get out of the App Store

#217

Post by IncRnd »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #169
IncRnd wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's absurd. The app store is not a service to developers but to consumers that Apple uses in order to have a working ecosystem.

I don't really understand the argument. The App Store can be a service to both developers and consumers. That's typically what a store is. Product manufacturers accept that they will sell more of their product in stores, enough to make up for the margin added by the retailer, vs direct sales. Consumers accept to pay more the convenience.

It's only indirectly true that the App Store is a service to developers.

It's a very straightforward argument.

Apple has the App Store in order to keep consumers. That it helps developers is a side benefit. Apple would drop the store if didn't retain consumers on the platforms.

Re: Apple sends a letter to Hey: Change your app or get out of the App Store

#218

Post by ryanwaggoner »

wayneftw wrote: post #209
ryanwaggoner wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ridiculously false. Discoverability on the App Store could be much better, but anyone involved in App Store marketing will tell you that you get a huge boost by being featured. For example, this article claims 800%: https://techcrunch.com/2018/04/20/ios-11s-new-app-store-boos...

Great! So, I am guaranteed to get featured in exchange for my $100 per year developer license and a 30% cut of my sale price?

Wow, so you moved the goalpost from "nobody discovers apps in the App Store" to "not every app is featured in the App Store".

Re: Apple sends a letter to Hey: Change your app or get out of the App Store

#219

Post by threeseed »

horsawlarway wrote: post #214
Redoubts wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows had 90% market share then.

Yes, and between Android and iOS, Apple and Google have captured ~98% of global the smartphone market in 2018. Apple accounts for roughly 47% US market share to Google's 52%. Apple's app store generated 33 billion of the total 57.4 billion in revenue in 2018, with Google taking the rest. They both operate app stores in very similar models, and both of them clearly need attention. Just because two competitors happen t…

This comment is all over the place.

So now it's gone from Apple being a monopoly to it actually being a duopoly that is impossible for third parties to compete in.

Even though there are plenty of app manufacturers with their own stores e.g. Samsung, Xiaomi, Huawei etc.

Re: Apple sends a letter to Hey: Change your app or get out of the App Store

#220

Post by m463 »

kristianc wrote: post #136
oauea wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comcast also doesn't restrict all its users to exclusively acquire software from the Comcast Store™. Apple does.

Apple would say tough potatoes and point out that billions of users worldwide are very satisfied with such a deal. You also very rarely hear stories of malware / fake apps on the Apple store.

But basically all apps on phones are dystopian now.

If I could block apps from network access, including apple apps, then that would prove they're not playing both sides.

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