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After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

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Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#211

Post by thelock85 »

There are only so many politically "inelastic" companies and organizations. Customers or employees are bound to have a political opinion that rubs against the company's line(s) of work. The only exceptions are large utilities (e.g. protesting the use of water and electricity in response to climate change) and small retail businesses (which often proudly display their politics and attract like-minded customers).

BLM platform explicitly calls for an "end to all jails, detention centers, youth facilities and prisons as we know them." So maybe GitHub CEO should have not said anything, but he did and its fair for the public (including GitHub employees) to drive accountability to the BLM platform.

And this says nothing of corporate political spending. From the perspective of a dissenting employee, what is the difference between having co-workers who demand an end to ICE contracts (in response to leadership public supporting BLM platform), and collecting salary from a company that donates to politicians who want to abolish ICE?

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#212

Post by phoe-krk »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #197
phoe-krk wrote: post #12

Doing cheap PR moves like blacking out logos or posting Twitter "support" posts from CEO accounts or announcing the end of default branches named "master" is, as I said, cheap. The real issue is dealing with the elephants in the room, such as the aforementioned ICE contract of GitHub. It is about time that corporations, with GitHub here as an example, noticed that backing this or that or another minority or "trying"…

While I may not totally agree with you on the politics, I do totally agree that I have a large discount for words made by corporations when it is the popular thing to do and when there are few negative consequences of them doing it . Yes, words of support matter, and I see nothing wrong with wanting to rename blacklist->blocklist and whitelist->allowlist, but I also can't help but roll my eyes a little when I see a L…

> there is a lot of good research about how housing segregation is one of the largest continuing drivers in systemic racism in the US

Could you link some of it? I'm alien to this particular issue.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#213

Post by munk-a »

malandrew wrote: post #153
elicash wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> could jeopardize their stance with other, less controversial, entities That would, of course, be a terrible and illegal abuse of power and essentially be the government policing political speech by private individuals. What an indictment of our government (and I don't mean a single person, but of the system itself) that this seems to be an uncontroversial statement. Because I agree, it's true, and it's the mark of…

Why would that be an abuse of power? The company has demonstrated that they are an unreliable government partner. It's wholly different to not accept a contract in the first place, but to unilaterally end it for any reason, political or otherwise, is grounds to consider that service provider unreliable.

The contract was brought to an end - but did the company prove they were an unreliable partner or did the government? These calls to end government association aren't coming from no where - these government acts don't have majority support and it's gotten to the point where individuals are feeling the need to take on personal risk to ensure that the government is actually aligned with the citizenry.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#214

Post by drunkpotato »

zdragnar wrote: post #157
drunkpotato wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Demonstrably and rather obviously untrue. They're violating the law in many instances, including but not limited to the cases of asylum seekers and current green card holders; it's just they're following the evil, xenophobic whims of the current political leadership, who are failing to hold themselves or ICE accountable to the rule of law, so they are, for the moment, getting away with their lawlessness. I hope we ca…

Given that the pictures of kids in cages came from before our current president was in office, this is the first time I've heard anyone call president Obama both evil and xenophobic.

I disliked the Obama administration’s stance on several policy issues, including immigration and his fondness for using drones, executive orders, and the secret powers of the state.

All of which and much more are significantly worse under the vile, toxic, xenophobic current administration.

But nice try at attempting to derail the conversation with some good old-fashioned whataboutism! Better luck next time!

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#215

Post by dominotw »

coolreader18 wrote: post #158
dominotw wrote: post #13

i wish someone of these workers quit. Tons of IT jobs even in covid. If you are not quitting then you are also profiting form ICE contract.

Well, yeah, that's their bargaining chip. If Microsoft wants to keep their workers, they should listen to their demands.

how is it a bargaining chip if no one ever quits no matter what. I would say 99.99% these people won't quit their jobs even if github decides to start working directly with ISIS.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#216

Post by tsimionescu »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #29
rattray wrote: post #14

What a bummer that workers are publicly demanding this, and (presumably) seeking press attention on it. I'm no fan of ICE – a very large percentage of my friends in the US are immigrants, and I generally want my country to be a welcoming one. ICE has certainly committed unethical and probably illegal acts (probably true of most federal agencies). But to expect that a _federal agency_ will be denied service from a pri…

(Edit: Removed “people are lazy”, poor choice of words) People feel despair, hence pushing on Github instead of the political process. I’m all for unconventional leverage, but Microsoft is a trillion dollar org and has shareholders; this isn’t some VC funded dual class share startup where the founder has a blank check to do whatever they want. Edit: Can’t give up on the political process, that’s where the change happ…

You've got this backwards. What is happening here is the real political process - people congregating and trying to achieve their political goals through organizations they can actually influence. Organizing to convince your employer, or your local government, or your school board or whatever organization you can to push things in some direction is the political process. Sure, voting is one aspect of it, but it is by no means the be-all, end-all of politics and democracy.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#217

Post by Craighead »

brabel wrote: post #170
jobeirne wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But to expect that a _federal agency_ will be denied service from a private entity, especially for essentially political reasons, is lunacy. Um, think you've got this backwards. Private entities shouldn't have to take on anyone they don't want as customers (for whatever reason - do you have to justify who you do or don't want in your livingroom?), but publicly-funded institutions shouldn't be able to deny service o…

I am strongly against a private business being able to refuse service to a person/organization on political grounds, even when the "victim" may seem to be performing evil actions, as long as it is not breaking any laws. One should not discriminate on the basis of race, political orientation, gender, origin or religion. Refusing service is clearly a form of discrimination. When you aim that towards your own Government…

What on earth are you talking about?

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#218

Post by salmon30salmon »

joshuamorton wrote: post #122
salmon30salmon wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GitHub perhaps, but we are talking Microsoft, and we are talking other corporate powers. One of the things I hear all the time is that corporations influence public policy _too much_. Look at ALEC, look at PACs etc. Companies _can_ influence policy. Look at Microsoft saying they won't offer facial recognition until laws are passed.

Right, Microsoft is influencing policy at ICE by refusing to provide them facial recognition software, which prevents them from having facial recognition software. In general, if the idea is that a tool makes you more efficient/effective, denying that tool does the opposite. Making ICE less effective seems laudable, so why not throw roadblocks, even small ones, in the way?

Because ICE as an organization isn't purely bad, nor is it purely good. As it is made up of people, there are good and bad. ICE also fights sex trafficking, which to me is akin to modern day slavery. I want ICE to have every tool at their disposal to fight sex trafficking.

If we stop ICE from using these tools, are you saying that sex trafficking victims are less worthy of help than detained immigrants? How do you draw that line?

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#219

Post by amcoastal »

akerro wrote: post #209
shaggyfrog wrote: post #77

There are a few comments in here already decrying “politicization”. Guess what? Politics are interwoven in every aspect of our lives. You cannot choose to “avoid” them; even suggesting you can be politically neutral is a political stance that comes from a place of privilege, because only the privileged can avoid experiencing negative political consequences inside their bubble. Collaboration with ICE is collaboration…

>Guess what? Politics are interwoven in every aspect of our lives. Yes, but also companies exist literally only to make money. Companies can't exist without workers. Once a company finds itself in a position of conflict of interest between political views of workers and point of existence of the company - where contracts bring money... we're going to see interesting things. I wonder, who will break first? The company…

So you don't agree with employees disagreeing with their company hosting code or developing tools for the Chinese government to run their concentration camps? Like the parent says, being non-political IS being political. You cannot separate it.

What is so bad about employees at a company having a say in what type of work the company does?

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#220

Post by surewhynat »

brabel wrote: post #170
jobeirne wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But to expect that a _federal agency_ will be denied service from a private entity, especially for essentially political reasons, is lunacy. Um, think you've got this backwards. Private entities shouldn't have to take on anyone they don't want as customers (for whatever reason - do you have to justify who you do or don't want in your livingroom?), but publicly-funded institutions shouldn't be able to deny service o…

I am strongly against a private business being able to refuse service to a person/organization on political grounds, even when the "victim" may seem to be performing evil actions, as long as it is not breaking any laws. One should not discriminate on the basis of race, political orientation, gender, origin or religion. Refusing service is clearly a form of discrimination. When you aim that towards your own Government…

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