Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Do I need to go to university?

colah.github.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 279 posts

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#211

Post by topkai22 »

juped wrote: post #110
sdan wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also want to point out: I'm seriously going to college just for the name + network. I can easily learn everything at home via MIT open courseware or the syllabus many Stanford courses put online nowadays.

Be sure to get the 4.0 GPA too - it's very nice to have for surprisingly long. Absolutely don't "challenge yourself". You can do that when you're not being graded on it.

Assuming that's remotely feasible. My alma mater only had 7 students graduate with a 4.0 ... In 60 years of existence.

I went to a top tier school and struggled with various parts of the curriculum (CHEM52, I'm looking at you). I convinced myself that I wasn't smart/good enough for various futures I'd previously envisioned, like academia or research. My confidence was shot and it affected where I applied for jobs out of college.

I ended up taking a contract position at Microsoft. I thrived, got my confidence back, and got hired full-time.

Two years after graduation an acquitance from my college reached out to me- he was coming to Microsoft Research for the summer, could I help him find a place to rent? We reconnected and got talking- It turned out his undergrad GPA was lower then mine! I never did find why he was more confident than me, but he had no problem thinking he was still qualified for a PhD program and was clearly doing well enough there to get picked up by prestigious research lab.

I'm pretty happy with the way my life has turned out, I have no reason to go back and change any decisions. In fact, many of the most valuable experience I had were unrelated to the classroom- student government, interactions with the board of trustees, putting together funding for various small projects. And I've had a great career since college. The only thing I wish I could change was how I felt about myself- I wish I'd been able to tell 20-year old me "you are doing fine! It'll be awesome in the end!" and have 20-year me believe me.

All of the above is a long way of saying- don't worry too much about your grades. Don't blow them off, but in the end they aren't as important as we often make them out to be.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#212

Post by deeblering4 »

bregma wrote: post #139

I went to university. I did not receive any job training at university. It is not design for job training and I did not expect to receive job training. I am not a job. I am not a career. I learned two important things at university that I doubt I could have picked up otherwise. 1. I learned how broad knowledge is. I learned about things I did not even know I did not know about. Some of these things I learned in class…

There are many people in this community, and undoubtedly your own professional network, who did not go to university.

The tech industry generally rewards those who can self-teach (tech is constantly changing), self-organize, and put in the effort.

A lot of people say university helps build a professional network.

Well anything you put put 4-8 years of concentrated effort into will help build a professional network. And if you go the route of internships and jr. level roles, you'll be paid while you do it.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#213

Post by dekhn »

PopeDotNinja wrote: post #9
Vuska wrote: post #4

I went to mediocre uni here in the UK studying Web Development. The educational value was pretty much worthless. I learnt more in a year at my first job than three years of university. But being forced to move out and become independent was invaluable.

Some education isn't all that useful. I had a computer-something-related class in college where we were talking about how computers were getting faster. Professor: If you think computers are fast now, it'll blow your mind that back in the 60s the NSA has computers running at 1000. Me: 1000? You mean 1000 megahertz? Professor: No, 1000. Me: facepalm I'm still paying off those student loans.

I got in an argument with a philosophy professor. He put a stick in water and said 'look... the stick is broken'. I said "no, the stick is not broken. it appears broken because the index of refraction is different in water than air, which causes light to bed". he didn't like that very much. It's still not clear to me what point he was trying to make (that human senses are limited?)

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#214

Post by dekhn »

Isamu wrote: post #185
blaser-waffle wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many of the wealthiest billionaires dropped out of school, didn't even go, or didn't consider it important. There are also many wealthy via inheritance. So, looking at the wealthy is not the demographic cohort that reveals the value of higher education. Yeah there is some serious selection bias there -- Bill Gates' dad was a wealthy lawyer who sent his kid to a private school that had it's own computer systems in t…

Right, Gates was relatively well off AND lucky to be hacking at the right time. Jobs was not rich at all but lived in the right general area AND was lucky to have the right interests to make friends with Woz.

and don't forget that Woz's dad was an EE who brought computer manuals home from Lockheed for Woz to read.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#215

Post by zenlot »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #124
empath75 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad was a grocery checker and my mom was a secretary. I didn’t go to college. I’m currently making more than six figures as a software engineer. The only meaningful networking connections I made outside of work was going to raves in the early 2000s.

My six siblings and I had farmer parents with a high school education. We all went to (and finished) college. Now we have 2 fortune-500 VPs, a research nursing administrator, an IT professional, and 2 self-employed business owners doing very well. So it can help to go to college. Just saying. Oh. And the next generation - 100% college educated. Several PhD's. All well employed. None working on the farm. So for some s…

> None working on the farm.

You seem to be proud, but sound derogatory towards those who actually work on a farm and are proud of it.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#216

Post by oehtXRwMkIs »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #152
bregma wrote: post #139

I went to university. I did not receive any job training at university. It is not design for job training and I did not expect to receive job training. I am not a job. I am not a career. I learned two important things at university that I doubt I could have picked up otherwise. 1. I learned how broad knowledge is. I learned about things I did not even know I did not know about. Some of these things I learned in class…

I don't understand this sentiment. I didn't go to university to learn "how broad knowledge is". Haven't you had 11 years of school to learn this? Haven't you had 18 years of formative relations with your parents to learn this? Learning this at college sounds like a massive waste of (1) money (2) your time (3) time of professors. The US spends ~3.5% of GDP on non-tertiary education and ~2.5% on tertiary education. If…

Have you attended K-12 in the US? It's pretty bad.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#217

Post by curation »

The most interesting work being done today is occurring at the interface between the academy and the public. It is not the same as it was 50 years ago to learn within universities for they are merely corporate machines fueling capitalism. Any critique of that order is unwelcome ( I know I have a graduate degree with a thesis attacking 'western thought' and the centralizing of the human. But you don't have to listen to me. Just read/watch Achille Mbembe.

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#218

Post by topkai22 »

sokoloff wrote: post #151
sokoloff wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College would have alleviated it for four years during college . I’m not convinced that the job market transforms quickly to absorb twice as many people in jobs we think of today as “college required”. I’m not sure what the correlation between income (or other life outcomes) is between “attended college” vs “would typically have chosen college but took another route” but I suspect it’s a lot smaller than between that…

This might be the paper I was recalling: https://www.nber.org/papers/w7322 As summarized by the Atlantic: "For most students, the salary boost from going to a super-selective school is “generally indistinguishable from zero” after adjusting for student characteristics, such as test scores. In other words, if Mike and Drew have the same SAT scores and apply to the same colleges, but Mike gets into Harvard and Drew doe…

Unless I completely misremember that article, the article says nothing about not going to college at all. I don't think I'd use that paper to conclude that highly talented individuals will have similiar income outcomes regardless if they go to university or not. The credentialing effect is likely very important

That being said- strongly consider going to a place that is willing to throw scholarship money or special programs at you. The financial aspect of that advice should be obvious, but buy in from the school into your education can mean better access and sponsorship from professors as well

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#219

Post by dpau »

dekhn wrote: post #213
PopeDotNinja wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some education isn't all that useful. I had a computer-something-related class in college where we were talking about how computers were getting faster. Professor: If you think computers are fast now, it'll blow your mind that back in the 60s the NSA has computers running at 1000. Me: 1000? You mean 1000 megahertz? Professor: No, 1000. Me: facepalm I'm still paying off those student loans.

I got in an argument with a philosophy professor. He put a stick in water and said 'look... the stick is broken'. I said "no, the stick is not broken. it appears broken because the index of refraction is different in water than air, which causes light to bed". he didn't like that very much. It's still not clear to me what point he was trying to make (that human senses are limited?)

you were of course correct, but your professor was simply illustrating a point- of whether we can trust our senses, of how we truly "know" something. philosophy often brings up "commonsensical" questions such as these. he probably didn't reply to you because he was bored from hearing the same smart alecky response every year :)

Re: Do I need to go to university?

#220

Post by jusmakingapost »

I always read these threads and have very mixed thoughts on this argument of being for or against Universities. I believe the pros of spending four years at a college outweigh a lot of the bad (loans, bad professors, etc) but only if you know what you want to do when you're done.

A lot of people go to Universities hoping to find themselves and never do.

Post reply on HN