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Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

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Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#211

Post by sida »

twic wrote: post #138
ceocoder wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be a stupid question, but surely no one thinks of RabbigMQ as a database right? I’ve used it from 2012 to 2018 extensively, including using things like shovels to build hub spoke topologies, however not once did I think of it as anything but a message broker. Did I miss something huge?

I once worked on a system for notifying customers of events by posting to their APIs. Events came in on a Rabbit queue and got posted. If a customer's API was down, the event would go back on the queue with a header saying to retry it after some time. You can do some sort of incantation to specifically retrieve messages with a suitable header value, to find messages which are ready to retry. We used exponential backo…

lol api could be down for a week? What?

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#212

Post by ianamartin »

erulabs wrote: post #186

I wonder if I'm the only sysadmin in the world who doesn't hate MongoDB. Yes, I wouldn't use it for new projects, and yes, I wish RethinkDB had taken its place, but it's not as horrible as people seem to think. Default configuration... If it weren't for RDS' doing PG-bouncer-style connection management, 95% of production postgres instances would probably fail. It innodb_buffer_pool_size wasn't set properly, plenty of…

RethinkDB is a better solution to every problem that MongoDB claims to solve. I wouldn't use it for everything. But once my need for a document store outgrows what's convenient and easy in Postgres with JSONB, I reach for Rethink. It's great. There's a Jepsen analysis of it a while back too that is quite positive.

It's a shame that Rethink did so many things right and failed as a company while Mongo continues to do almost everything wrong as a company and still gets business.

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#213

Post by bbulkow »

madhadron wrote: post #27

In the circles I run in, MongoDB is regarded as a joke and the company behind it as basically duplicitous. For example, they still list Facebook as their first user of MongoDB on their website, for example, but there is no MongoDB use in Facebook hasn't been for years (it came in only via a startup acquisition). I had the misfortune to use MongoDB at a previous job. The replication protocol wasn't atomic. You would f…

that acquisition that used mongo got spun off and is now Honeycomb.io . nice people.

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#214

Post by serkanh »

mathattack wrote: post #197
madhadron wrote: post #27

In the circles I run in, MongoDB is regarded as a joke and the company behind it as basically duplicitous. For example, they still list Facebook as their first user of MongoDB on their website, for example, but there is no MongoDB use in Facebook hasn't been for years (it came in only via a startup acquisition). I had the misfortune to use MongoDB at a previous job. The replication protocol wasn't atomic. You would f…

I have found their salespeople to be the most sleazy and unethical of any that I’ve worked with. Much worse than all the other database vendors combined.

Cant agree with this more! I have never met any sleazier sales reps than MOngodb.

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#215

Post by gwbas1c »

jedberg wrote: post #29

MongoDB started life as a database designed for speed and ease of use over durability. That's not a good look for a database. People have told me that they have since changed, but the evidence is overwhelmingly and repeatedly against them. They seem to have been successful on marketing alone. Or people care more about speed and ease of use than durability, and my assumptions about what people want in a database are j…

I find with the MongoDB style of database, it's easy to prototype without needing to do the heavy schema management of SQL.

But, if you need a traditional ACID database, the flexibility comes with punch in the groin technical debt.

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#216

Post by Thaxll »

polote wrote: post #122
madhadron wrote: post #27

In the circles I run in, MongoDB is regarded as a joke and the company behind it as basically duplicitous. For example, they still list Facebook as their first user of MongoDB on their website, for example, but there is no MongoDB use in Facebook hasn't been for years (it came in only via a startup acquisition). I had the misfortune to use MongoDB at a previous job. The replication protocol wasn't atomic. You would f…

Nobody seems to like it. Someone has any idea on why the company still has their revenue increasing ?

Because good engineers don't take for granted what's written on HN and do a thorough evaluation of a product, MongoDB or something else.

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#217

Post by gwbas1c »

ncmncm wrote: post #44

MongoDB's big problem is that their present user base does not want the problems fixed, particularly at default settings, because it would mean going slower. Their users are self-selected as not caring much about integrity and durability. There are lots of applications where those qualities are just not very important, but speed is. People with such applications do need help with data management, and have money to sp…

Translation: They were trying to be everything for everybody.

The syntax is very nice, I honestly think a lot of it's early success came from ease of use.

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#218

Post by bauerm97 »

kyllo wrote: post #207
jen20 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firstly let me point out that this response is neither intended as a defence of MongoDB defaults which are atrocious, or of the company, who are arguably duplicitous. However I can _quite easily_ see how a non-native English speaker could use the phrase “if you know what you are doing” to mean “if you are careful”.

Perhaps, but the point is, if you're working in DevRel and you think your role is to defend the product from criticism, and you do it by placing the onus on the developer to figure out how to use your product safely, you've totally lost the plot.

Also, if you're a DevRel, maybe you should have strong verbal and written communication skills in the language of your users? Just an idea

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#220

Post by madhadron »

bbulkow wrote: post #213
madhadron wrote: post #27

In the circles I run in, MongoDB is regarded as a joke and the company behind it as basically duplicitous. For example, they still list Facebook as their first user of MongoDB on their website, for example, but there is no MongoDB use in Facebook hasn't been for years (it came in only via a startup acquisition). I had the misfortune to use MongoDB at a previous job. The replication protocol wasn't atomic. You would f…

that acquisition that used mongo got spun off and is now Honeycomb.io . nice people.

Honeycomb.io is a reimplementation (with some nice additions) of some of Facebook's internal monitoring tools. Mongo was never involved in those tools, as far as I know. I have no idea if honeycomb is using it internally.
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