Live data from Hacker News

Google bans my events app for referencing Covid-19, or related terms

news.ycombinator.com

211–219 of 219 posts

Re: Google bans my events app for referencing Covid-19, or related terms

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 90% of the value of a smart phone is having a web browser in your pocket and most "apps" could have just as easily been web pages. They will be very soon. PWA is spreading like wildfire. Now we just need to teach people to use secure browsers. (Not just ones people think are private.)

> PWA is spreading like wildfire. Do you mean on Android? I've read they're a bit crippled on iOS

They're a bit crippled on both main platforms, but quite a bit less all the time. and the more average consumer learns about them, the less the friction will be of Menu->Add to homescreen (if you missed the prompt/dismissed it without reading).

Re: Google bans my events app for referencing Covid-19, or related terms

#212

Slightly different topic, but Google also suspended our company's adwords account, I believe for using keywords related to COVID-19. The business is an American manufacturer that added capacity to manufacture PPE to make up for the lack of Chinese supply. Since we were supplying direct to the market, the prices of the PPE were in-market from before COVID times, or cheaper. We weren't out to make a killing, just to fi…

A friend’s company was doing something similar and I shared a link to their website on my Facebook. Not an advertisement, just a link to the homepage of a company I personally knew that is making and selling PPE (at normal/reasonable prices, this wasn’t some shady operation). It got taken down for “going against community standards”. I tried to appeal but it was just a black box and I never heard anything back. I feel like tech companies are actively making this pandemic worse even if they think they are helping.

Re: Google bans my events app for referencing Covid-19, or related terms

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not legally. If someone published an app on the Apple store that slandered you, Apple wouldn't be liable, even if they had profited from that app. The goal of Section 230 is to allow companies to moderate. It was based on two cases: one where a company that tried to moderate harmful content got stuck with liability, and one where a company that did no moderation at all got off by calling itself a platform. The point…

I don't think section 230 would be able to establish absolute immunity from liability that does not originate from moderation activity. If that were the case, it would be gamed to Hell and back with disparate legal entities and straw-man corporations, such that the immunized entity would book all the revenue, and the liability-exposed entities would be rendered judgment-proof. If Google takes 30% of revenues from all…

> If you put up a paywall on your forum, and it is a platform for libel, you damned well should be liable

But legally, you aren't. Both Compuserve and Prodigy, the companies that Section 230 are based on, were commercial services that made money. Section 230 is a blanket protection, it doesn't have an exception built in to open liability back up in the case of lazy, insufficient moderation.

That's been upheld pretty consistently since the law was created. In particular, in 2008:

> Immunity was upheld against claims of fraud and money laundering. Google was not responsible for misleading advertising created by third parties who bought space on Google's pages. The court found the creative pleading of money laundering did not cause the case to fall into the crime exception to Section 230 immunity.

Scrolling through the case law since Section 230 was founded, you'll see that many of the cases it was used in involved commercial entities that profited from their services.

> If the moderation in place is so strict that it is producing significant false positives, why should the false negatives be protected?

Because that was the intention of the original law. The thought was that if moderation creates liability, companies won't do it. If scanning for malware makes Google liable for malware under some ruling that their moderation isn't "complete", then there's no incentive for Google to scan for malware in the Play Store. And if nobody moderated anything, the Internet would become a cesspool of malware, spam, pornography, advertisements, misinformation, hate speech, and general poor content.

Of course, some people think the Internet already is a cesspool in that regard, but my feeling is they don't have a good grasp on how much worse the problem could be.

Section 230 was created specifically to protect services who tried to moderate content, but who didn't do a perfect job, because (the thought was) imperfect moderation is better than nothing. It didn't come with a clause that said that companies would lose their protection if they were accidentally banned the wrong person, or if they had inconsistent standards, or if their standards were lazy.

> Should that be legally protected?

Legally, it is protected. Should is a separate question, and people are free to believe whatever they want. There is no shortage of Democrats and Republicans in Congress right now who are asking that same question, although the two parties seem to have radically different, incompatible ideas about what the world is going to look like when the protection goes away. And then there are a few people like Barr who mostly just care about using 230 as a proxy to attack encryption, which is at least a nonpartisan goal that the DOJ has consistently pursued across multiple presidencies.

But the point is, whatever these people's motivations, if you really think that Section 230 was a mistake, it's not impossible that you might be able to get a world without it in the future -- and then we'll all find out whether or not it was a good idea. Just expect some hefty resistance from people like me, as well as from organizations like the EFF and ACLU.

Re: Google bans my events app for referencing Covid-19, or related terms

#215
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Power users can use Android. The problem with side loading us social engineering attacks. Imagine how many iPhone users could be persuaded to sideload ‘corona 5g bioshield app detunes the software radio in your phone away from the harmful frequencies the NWO is trying to expose us to’.

> Imagine how many iPhone users could be persuaded to sideload ‘corona 5g bioshield app detunes the software radio in your phone away from the harmful frequencies the NWO is trying to expose us to’. Less than 0.5% of them, apparently. But also, what do you care what idiots do? Nobody is forcing you to install it on your phone. Freedom of choice is not an obligation to choose poorly.

0.5% of 2.5 billion is 125 million. Is sideload malware irrelevant because “only” 125 million phones have flicked the sideloading switch?

I think there’s good reason for the sideload feature to be there, but your argument seems to be about it being unimportant because 0.5% isn’t a big percentage.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/7/18528297/google-io-2019-an...

Re: Google bans my events app for referencing Covid-19, or related terms

#216

I'm not a fan of censorship at any level. But at least you can always have Android users install themselves. Sure you don't get their massive advertising platform Play Store. But that's Google's decision. You can organically develop users, you don't need Google.

That's an option that requires some tech savviness. The choice architecture of Android heavily favours Play Store, so it's deflecting the issue to say it's not a form of censorship because there's a workaround.

Re: Google bans my events app for referencing Covid-19, or related terms

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Require you to run an app on a Mac laptop and write some code to make it work. Make it so that there are so many steps that only the most dedicated are interested. But just make it possible. Can't you do exactly that with xcode?

The seven day certificate expiration duration also makes this largely impractical.

The parent said: “Make it so that there are so many steps that only the most dedicated are interested. But just make it possible.“

Re: Google bans my events app for referencing Covid-19, or related terms

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think section 230 would be able to establish absolute immunity from liability that does not originate from moderation activity. If that were the case, it would be gamed to Hell and back with disparate legal entities and straw-man corporations, such that the immunized entity would book all the revenue, and the liability-exposed entities would be rendered judgment-proof. If Google takes 30% of revenues from all…

> If you put up a paywall on your forum, and it is a platform for libel, you damned well should be liable But legally, you aren't. Both Compuserve and Prodigy, the companies that Section 230 are based on, were commercial services that made money. Section 230 is a blanket protection, it doesn't have an exception built in to open liability back up in the case of lazy, insufficient moderation. That's been upheld pretty…

So, essentially, 230 was a gift by legislators to businesses running walled gardens at the expense of those being paid to patrol the bazaar.

Re: Google bans my events app for referencing Covid-19, or related terms

#219
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The seven day certificate expiration duration also makes this largely impractical.

The parent said: “Make it so that there are so many steps that only the most dedicated are interested. But just make it possible.“

I consider ‘impractical’ (not practicable) to not rise to ‘possible’.
Post reply on HN