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Swift 5.3 Will Be Supported on Windows and Additional Linux Distributions

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Re: Swift 5.3 Will Be Supported on Windows and Additional Linux Distributions

#211

Post by fetbaffe »

ashtonkem wrote: post #70
judge2020 wrote: post #68

> . It is hard to think that any Windows programmer would prefer Swift as a language over .NET languages, as many commenters pointed out on Reddit, but a port of Swift UI on Windows could be a game changer. Everybody would jump to Swift [for new projects] if it meant a cross-platform GUI framework.

Creating a good cross-platform GUI framework is probably harder than creating a good cross-platform language.

Personally I wouldn't mind creating a new UI for every platform I need to support as long as I could use the same language with the same build tools and reusing components between them.

Re: Swift 5.3 Will Be Supported on Windows and Additional Linux Distributions

#212

Post by cutler »

ken wrote: post #91
judge2020 wrote: post #68

> . It is hard to think that any Windows programmer would prefer Swift as a language over .NET languages, as many commenters pointed out on Reddit, but a port of Swift UI on Windows could be a game changer. Everybody would jump to Swift [for new projects] if it meant a cross-platform GUI framework.

That's a big if. From what I've read, SwiftUI isn't even a great Mac/iOS GUI framework yet. And Windows and Linux are drastically more different than those two.

Agreed. Just watched a recent tutorial on SwiftUI where changes to Hello World were taking a lifetime to update in canvas view. SwiftUI, like most of Apple's OS releases, is beta quality.

Re: Swift 5.3 Will Be Supported on Windows and Additional Linux Distributions

#213

Post by cutler »

josephg wrote: post #129
Diesel555 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really enjoy swiftUI. It appears like it tried to emulate react and succeeded on a few fronts, is better in a few fronts (child modifying parent variable), and worse in a few fronts (side effects). That being said, my experience with SwiftUI users is that they don't like it because it is so different from the standard Mac experience (props and re-renders and state...). And the documentation is poor (IMO has been Ap…

I’ve spent the last week learning SwiftUI to see how hard it would be to reimplement Notion in a performant way. It seems really ... unfinished. Like, the default List view is really hard to style. I spent 4 hours yesterday trying to get an unstyled text Button to have a hit target bigger than the characters themselves. Adding a frame with a background worked, but if the frame had no background (or a transparent back…

Needs to be said. Apple doesn't seem to give a toss about performance or developer experience so long as it has something to demo at its annual developer conference.

Re: Swift 5.3 Will Be Supported on Windows and Additional Linux Distributions

#214

Post by pjmlp »

jabl wrote: post #192
pjmlp wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe TF4Swift will go anywhere. Fortran, C++, Python and Julia drive the show and work with full tooling across UNIX flavours, Windows, macOS today.

I'd love to have a modern statically typed language with type inferencing etc. that can be used for scripting, working in a REPL, as well as compiling to native code. I've never tried Swift, but it seems it could have all the required features. I guess it's just lacking a lot of libraries that work on Linux.

OCaml fits the bill.

Re: Swift 5.3 Will Be Supported on Windows and Additional Linux Distributions

#215

Post by michaelcampbell »

vijaybritto wrote: post #121
stu_k wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although it technically has cross platform GUI, Flutter has actually reimplemented all the native OS widgets. As soon as the OS changes some look and feel your app will look out of date.

Yes it will look out of date. But whats important? A functioning app or good looking one? We all know that websites written for ie6 are out there today making millions in revenue. It always comes down to the functionality not the looks

> But whats important? A functioning app or good looking one?

Depends on your audience.

Re: Swift 5.3 Will Be Supported on Windows and Additional Linux Distributions

#216

Post by coldtea »

veidr wrote: post #186
ashtonkem wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Creating a good cross-platform GUI framework is probably harder than creating a good cross-platform language.

Creating a good cross-platform GUI framework is probably harder than creating a good cross-platform language. Way way way way way harder, I'd think. It's basically never been done in the modern era. All the successful ones from the past look (and work) like garbage on a modern desktop computer (I use gnucash for my dad's business, ha ha). SwiftUI is an interesting re-think, though, and as a Windows 10 user, I can tel…

>Way way way way way harder, I'd think. It's basically never been done in the modern era.

Also never been really tried, except by second tier companies with small recourses like Trolltech/QT, or even smaller open source attempts like Wx.

Re: Swift 5.3 Will Be Supported on Windows and Additional Linux Distributions

#217

Post by zapzupnz »

brigandish wrote: post #188
zapzupnz wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because of a point release The second set of digits represents major releases. The third set represents point releases. macOS has been out, using this versioning scheme for a little over 20 years. Don't belittle the work between major releases just because the first set of digits hasn't changed. Windows Vista through Windows 8.1 are all 6.x, but nobody would claim that Vista and its service packs, 7 and its service…

> The second set of digits represents major releases. The third set represents point releases. It's called being facetious . Regardless, Xcode definitely does not use the 2nd digit for major releases[1], which does require 10.15. > Windows Vista… Completely irrelevant. > Also, if your machine supports 10.14, it supports 10.15. The last MacBook Pro that dropped support for anything more recent came out in 2011. Yeah,…

> It's called being facetious

Then stop being facetious. It wasn't clear you were being facetious, anyway.

> Completely irrelevant

No, it isn't, not to the point I was making. You also don't get to decide what's relevant to a point someone else is making.

The point is that Vista's version number is 6.0, 7's was 6.1, 8's was 6.2, and 8.1's was 6.3. All seemingly minor version number bumps, all major releases.

> Yeah, the reality for my machine is that the upgrade did not take

That's unfortunate — but nobody else's problem. If you have a capable machine, harping on about ...

> They sell hardware

... doesn't really stand. They may be selling hardware — but you don't have to buy any.

Re: Swift 5.3 Will Be Supported on Windows and Additional Linux Distributions

#218

Post by GordonS »

vijaybritto wrote: post #119
gman83 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that were true wouldn't we be seeing a big increase in Dart adoption because of Flutter as well? I'm not seeing it.

Flutter is one of the fastest growing frameworks for the past two years and therefore dart too. It most likely will succeed cause of this pace and the community growing around it. When flutter for desktop lands into beta I think it will pick up even more pace and would be very hard to ignore for a lot of companies.

IMO Flutter would have received far wider adoption now if it used Typescript instead of flogging the dead Dart horse.

Re: Swift 5.3 Will Be Supported on Windows and Additional Linux Distributions

#219

Post by ksec »

zapzupnz wrote: post #161
ksec wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the thing I dont like about the current Apple. They used to release things where you see they put a lot of thoughts into it. Now they are half baked. This isn't so much a problem on Apps ( The Product ) where it is constantly being updated and tweaked. But with code you have the hassle to try and keep up. And the pace of improvement is very very slow. To put things into perspective, Swift UI has been developm…

> Apple also isn't dogfooding much with Swift. That's because it didn't have a stable ABI until Swift 5, released last year. Now that it does, a lot of their iOS/iPadOS apps have been rewritten, at least partially but sometimes fully, in Swift; this includes some of their Catalyst apps on Mojave and Catalina. The only app I know for sure to be fully written in Swift, thus far, is the Apple Developer app (previously c…

>I must have missed this. Where did you hear this? I'd love to see more info about that.

Chris Lattner said in one of the pod cast, I think it was Accidental Tech, where Swift UI started before he left Apple. Since that was 3.5 years ago, Swift must have been close to 4 years of work.

Re: Swift 5.3 Will Be Supported on Windows and Additional Linux Distributions

#220

Post by ksec »

DagAgren wrote: post #190
ksec wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the thing I dont like about the current Apple. They used to release things where you see they put a lot of thoughts into it. Now they are half baked. This isn't so much a problem on Apps ( The Product ) where it is constantly being updated and tweaked. But with code you have the hassle to try and keep up. And the pace of improvement is very very slow. To put things into perspective, Swift UI has been developm…

> But somehow after nearly 6 years Objective-C stills feels better This experience is shared by basically nobody? I used to love Objective-C, which was unusual even before Swift, but I would not in a million years switch back to using it. Swift is so much better in every single way.

At least all host of Accidental Tech podcast shared similar feeling.
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