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500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

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Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#211

Post by icebraining »

apta wrote: post #194
edflsafoiewq wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you propose to enforce this? Don't legally recognize gambling debts. If people lose a bet they can pay it if they want to, but the law wouldn't recognize or enforce the debt. This appears to be basically what happened in this case anyway.

> Don't legally recognize gambling debts. If people lose a bet they can pay it if they want to, but the law wouldn't recognize or enforce the debt. Correct, and you take it a step farther. People don't pay even if they want, both parties engaging in gambling are penalized.

To penalize them, you have to identify them first. Gambling is like corruption, in that two innocent activities (a game and a transfer of money) are combined, and you need to prove that link to prove that gambling occurred.

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#212

Post by icebraining »

apta wrote: post #209
valuearb wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will not. First, large numbers of people will still gamble, and pay a far higher price to do so. Sports betting is illegal in my state, yet the poker games at my local casino has always been full of bookies taking bets from other players, at significantly worse lines and higher vig than legal book makers in Vegas charge. And sometimes stiffing winners clients after they have a big win, or using threats of violence…

> Sports betting is illegal in my state, yet the poker games at my local casino... So gambling is still allowed in your state. I'm saying to ban it completely so the entire market is closed. It won't be too difficult to crack down on private gambling sites as well. The issue in the US is that each state has its own laws, so this won't work unless there is a ban at the federal level. > Legalized gambling doesn’t just…

> There are countries where gambling is banned, and they don't have a gambling or crime problem.

Like which? The only democracy I see that (almost) fully banned gambling seems to be Israel, and their underground gambling industry is estimated at $3.5 billion.

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#213

Post by valuearb »

apta wrote: post #209
valuearb wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will not. First, large numbers of people will still gamble, and pay a far higher price to do so. Sports betting is illegal in my state, yet the poker games at my local casino has always been full of bookies taking bets from other players, at significantly worse lines and higher vig than legal book makers in Vegas charge. And sometimes stiffing winners clients after they have a big win, or using threats of violence…

> Sports betting is illegal in my state, yet the poker games at my local casino... So gambling is still allowed in your state. I'm saying to ban it completely so the entire market is closed. It won't be too difficult to crack down on private gambling sites as well. The issue in the US is that each state has its own laws, so this won't work unless there is a ban at the federal level. > Legalized gambling doesn’t just…

You ignore what I said and ignore reality. I gave real examples of two real gambling markets, one legal and illegal, that demonstrated how much worse the effects of the illegal market were.

Instead you claim countries have successfully banned gambling completely. OK name one so we can correct your misapprehension.

For example Sports betting has been illegal almost everywhere in the US for a long time. Illegal sports gambling has peaked near $150B a year.

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#214

Post by testnew2 »

airstrike wrote: post #142
LargeWu wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's only "too much luck" in games like poker, or backgammon, sports betting, over a short timeline, which is probably longer than you think. That can be hundreds, or even thousands of hands or games. Over a statistically large sample of hands or games, skilled players will almost always dominate unskilled players.

> Over a statistically large sample of hands or games, skilled players will almost always dominate unskilled players. That's true of any game or sport, though. Poker is just one in which that is "less true".

And it’s why bad players play it. Poker players should embrace luck because it’d the only reason whales exist.

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#215

Post by testnew2 »

airstrike wrote: post #187
LargeWu wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of this. While it's true that the more skilled party in a traditional physical sport will do better over the long run, their advantage will also be more apparent over the short run. Skill in poker comes from managing variance over a long horizon; the advantage for a particular hand is largely determined by randomness The advantage in sports does not derive from randomne…

> It would be almost impossible to quantify odds of winning a given poker hand before any cards are dealt. You're literally making my point, now, namely: luck is a much bigger factor in poker than in other card games, so I prefer to play those that require less fortune from me and more strategy.

Just because poker involves luck does not mean it requires less strategy than any other game.

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#216

Post by apta »

icebraining wrote: post #210
apta wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that people lose money for no reason other than delusion that they're going to make a lot of money doing nothing is enough proof. Gambling is fundamentally immoral and parasitic.

Most players don't hold any such delusion, they just like the thrill of the chance despite knowing it's quite unlikely. Gambling addicts are quite a small percentage, compared to the millions who spend a coffee cup's worth every week on a lottery ticket. If you're going to outlaw an activity because a small percentage can't control themselves, you'll have to outlaw quite a few activities.

> If you're going to outlaw an activity because a small percentage can't control themselves, you'll have to outlaw quite a few activities.

That would be a good thing overall.

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#217

Post by apta »

icebraining wrote: post #212
apta wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sports betting is illegal in my state, yet the poker games at my local casino... So gambling is still allowed in your state. I'm saying to ban it completely so the entire market is closed. It won't be too difficult to crack down on private gambling sites as well. The issue in the US is that each state has its own laws, so this won't work unless there is a ban at the federal level. > Legalized gambling doesn’t just…

> There are countries where gambling is banned, and they don't have a gambling or crime problem. Like which? The only democracy I see that (almost) fully banned gambling seems to be Israel, and their underground gambling industry is estimated at $3.5 billion.

The world is more than just "democratic" nations (which, are also usually "democratic" by name, but are actually something else).

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#218

Post by apta »

valuearb wrote: post #213
apta wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sports betting is illegal in my state, yet the poker games at my local casino... So gambling is still allowed in your state. I'm saying to ban it completely so the entire market is closed. It won't be too difficult to crack down on private gambling sites as well. The issue in the US is that each state has its own laws, so this won't work unless there is a ban at the federal level. > Legalized gambling doesn’t just…

You ignore what I said and ignore reality. I gave real examples of two real gambling markets, one legal and illegal, that demonstrated how much worse the effects of the illegal market were. Instead you claim countries have successfully banned gambling completely. OK name one so we can correct your misapprehension. For example Sports betting has been illegal almost everywhere in the US for a long time. Illegal sports…

Gambling is banned in Saudi Arabia.

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#219

Post by gpderetta »

airstrike wrote: post #90
gpderetta wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Burraco (that's how's called here) is fairly popular in Italy as well. My family has been playing it for generations and has been a staple of family reunions.

My family has a lot of long-lost Italian influence (my father is called Mario, same as 5 other relatives including great-grandfather, uncles and cousins...) so I'm not surprised it's popular there! My family actually called it Biriba, which I learned is the name of the Greek variant, though our rules were closer to Buraco... Now I wonder what your family rules are! A lot of people restrict the types of runs you can p…

Today we play with the official Italian rules, but even before, we actually had only very small divergence (you were not allowed to clean dirty plays, you could play a tris of deuces and you could discard a decue as your last card); also we used to play to 2000 points instead of three games.

More interesting is that we actually called the game canasta, which actually is a different but related game.

Re: 500K bet on rock paper scissors ruled invalid by Quebec court

#220

Post by valuearb »

apta wrote: post #218
valuearb wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You ignore what I said and ignore reality. I gave real examples of two real gambling markets, one legal and illegal, that demonstrated how much worse the effects of the illegal market were. Instead you claim countries have successfully banned gambling completely. OK name one so we can correct your misapprehension. For example Sports betting has been illegal almost everywhere in the US for a long time. Illegal sports…

Gambling is banned in Saudi Arabia.

Yet people still gamble in Saudi Arabia like crazy.

What’s next, you gonna want to ban gravity cause your feet are sore?

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