How rich kids already won the career game • Hacker News Board

Re: How rich kids already won the career game

#211

Post by haploid » Mon, Mar 07, 2011, 10:19 PM UTC

johngalt wrote: post #168

nlz1 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is dead on. I had a summer internship with a prestigious law firm. During the initial meet and greet between the interns and partners, one of my fellow interns admitted to not working after college in favor of "just traveling the world, surfing." To my shock, the partner was impressed by this answer. I was dumbfounded. (PROTIP: usually "traveling the world surfing" is only possible if you are independently wealt…

Why would this shock you? Don't you find it interesting/impressive?

I am not particularly impressed with people who, by virtue of being born into money, spend years of their lives engaged in various unproductive pursuits.

I do find it interesting that someone named johngalt would be impressed by someone living the benefits of unearned wealth. Perhaps you should have adopted a more appropriate username. Were philiprearden and jamestaggart taken?

Re: How rich kids already won the career game

#212

Post by tomkarlo » Mon, Mar 07, 2011, 10:21 PM UTC

ShabbyDoo wrote: post #132

Of the 100+ comments so far, relatively little has been said about the benefit to one's career of knowing upper class (or even just upper middle class) social rules. I'm not referring to the obvious ones like which fork to use at a restaurant but rather to the more subtle ones like what constitutes appropriate small talk. A 23 year-old from any socio-economic background might not have sufficient knowledge to contribu…

The obsession with manners and etiquette is more of an upper-middle-class trait than upper class. It's supposedly driven by the desire to differentiate themselves from the "middle class". Quantitatively they've shown this is why you see more use of latinate words in that group (like "Limousine" rather than "car") relative to folks who are truly in the top 1-5% by wealth.

That said, I don't think this factor is an issue for just about anyone who graduated from an Ivy-League or comparable college. In my experience at front-office corporate jobs, someone unable to present themselves reasonably at a client meeting, even at 20 or 21 (we had college interns) would simply never have been hired, but I don't remember it ever actually being a problem.

Re: How rich kids already won the career game

#213

Post by akkartik » Mon, Mar 07, 2011, 10:21 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #170

The career game is not nearly as important now as it was a couple decades ago, though. Now you can easily opt to be judged directly by market, by starting your own company. Customers don't know or care what your social origins are.

But startups often need investors, and you're more likely to get investors before you have product or traction if you're neither too aggressive nor too passive. Charming, in short.

Re: How rich kids already won the career game

#214

Post by jacques_chester » Mon, Mar 07, 2011, 10:22 PM UTC

zeemonkee wrote: post #123

yummyfajitas wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern logistics (c.f. Walmart) is a hugely significant technological breakthrough, and is arguably the foundation of our modern economy. It's not obvious to consumers because it happened behind the scenes, but don't neglect it's significance.

Modern logistics developed mainly during the Second World War and post-war period, along with the computer revolution. My point is however that the last few decades have seen a refinement of more revolutionary changes in the first half of the twentieth century. For example, from 1902 - 1960 we went from the Kitty Hawk to the jet passenger plane. From 1960 we went from the jet plane to .... ? We're still flying around…

Physical laws and economic realities constrain technological progress. In the case of aircraft the possibilities allowed these laws and realities were exhausted in 60 years. No point being upset about it.

Re: How rich kids already won the career game

#215

Post by keltecp11 » Mon, Mar 07, 2011, 10:24 PM UTC

I would like to point out that Atheltics and confidence is important here... athletics builds selfesteem and confidence which can replace wealth.

Re: How rich kids already won the career game

#216

Post by akronim » Mon, Mar 07, 2011, 10:32 PM UTC

nlz1 wrote: post #158

ShabbyDoo wrote: post #132

Of the 100+ comments so far, relatively little has been said about the benefit to one's career of knowing upper class (or even just upper middle class) social rules. I'm not referring to the obvious ones like which fork to use at a restaurant but rather to the more subtle ones like what constitutes appropriate small talk. A 23 year-old from any socio-economic background might not have sufficient knowledge to contribu…

This is dead on. I had a summer internship with a prestigious law firm. During the initial meet and greet between the interns and partners, one of my fellow interns admitted to not working after college in favor of "just traveling the world, surfing." To my shock, the partner was impressed by this answer. I was dumbfounded. (PROTIP: usually "traveling the world surfing" is only possible if you are independently wealt…

"traveling the world surfing" is within the reach of anyone who can afford the initial airfare, provided it's to somewhere you can live cheaply and survive on odd jobs. Think Morocco not Maui, Indo not California. There is a happy medium between 5 star hotels and living like a hobo...

Re: How rich kids already won the career game

#217

Post by te_chris » Mon, Mar 07, 2011, 10:38 PM UTC

ramanujan wrote: post #34

hartror wrote: post #13

I think this article is preaching to the wrong crowd here on HN. A entrepreneur is by definition an upstart, an usurper who is out to break the conventions. You can't do this by being a quite yes man. That said what percentage of entrepreneurs, successful or not come from rich backgrounds? This article's ideas would apply two fold to the startup arena where you cannot get anywhere simply by running on the hamster whe…

Relatedly, 60% of NBA Stars are bankrupt within 5 years after retirement: http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3469271 Filing for bankruptcy is a long-standing tradition for NBA players, 60% of whom, according to the Toronto Star, are broke five years after they retire. So it's not completely true that wealth is an advantage that cannot be squandered. And in the US there was a saying that used to be more popula…

(paraphrasing but) "There is nothing so easily parted as a fool and his money".

The NBA thing makes perfect sense to me. I see a lot of (god I hate the term but it has the meaning I want to convey) "Nouveau Riche" here in NZ who just blow it on the stupidest stuff. All that really shows is that there are two aspects to having money 1. Having the ability and freedom to make consumption decisions that were not available to you when you didn't have money. 2. the flipside of that is knowing how to keep it.

I think there's a lot of education and responsibility that comes with being wealthy and a lot of people who have been raised without money don't have the requisite knowledge and financial management skills to keep the new found fortune that they never expected to make that they suddenly find themselves in possession of.

TL;DR not only are the rich richer than us, they're better at being rich than we are - because they're already rich.

Re: How rich kids already won the career game

#218

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 07, 2011, 10:41 PM UTC

johngalt wrote: post #207

jbooth wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Investment banker: Work hard where you're at and then steal the client list to go start your own shop." That's actually the one action where a non-compete is universally and trivially enforceable in all 50 states. As I understand it, IANAL. Additionally, it's unethical if you believe in that sort of thing. So, bad idea. Not sure what communism has to do with anything. At all.

If you sign a non-compete, are you surprised that it's difficult to go out and found a competing organization? If you can't manage starting your own investment firm, then you apply what you've learned as a banker to a different slice of the pie. Fundamentally you're looking at ways it won't work rather than looking at ways it can work. "Not sure what communism has to do with anything. At all." The article? Specifical…

[deleted]

Re: How rich kids already won the career game

#219

Post by erikpukinskis » Mon, Mar 07, 2011, 10:57 PM UTC

zeemonkee wrote: post #64

"I believe my generation will overthrow the arbitrary and brutal authority of corporate capitalism and bigoted conservatism in favor of rationalistic, libertarian socialism driven by a scientific approach and a concern for universal social justice." That's what my generation believed. And my parents' generation. And their parents....read some literature from 100 years ago, for example by the Fabians or other socialis…

[On overthrowing the arbitrary authority:] That's what my generation believed. And my parents' generation. And their parents...

On my good days, I think your generation did a pretty good job. And your parents too. The amount of authority that has been overthrown in the last 100 years is pretty staggering. And I think we'll do a good job too.

The world is a mess. I widely despise our cultural practices. But I also see that there are armies of brilliant, good people working in the background to turn all of it around.

If you're talking total overthrow, then of course... tyranny will always remain. But I think overthrow for the better is a constant, largely monotonic process. And regression (for example, our collective environmental destruction) usually happens because the system is funtional, but unstable... people are living sustainably while living above a massive reservoir of free energy is not actually sustainable, because it's politically unstable.

So, while the system might get temporarily less functional (releasing greenhouse gasses), it is getting more stable (burning fossil fuels which are destabilizing materials).

Which is to say, I think we are overthrowing these arbitrary destructive structures.

Re: How rich kids already won the career game

#220

Post by enduser » Mon, Mar 07, 2011, 10:58 PM UTC

This specifically has to do with fear, social fear, and how it plays out in the workplace and in one's relationships.

You cannot change your social background, but you can choose to recognize and transcend fear. You can treat everybody respectfully as a social equal regardless of your background.

Meditation helps.