China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest • Hacker News Board

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#211

Post by ferest » Sun, Apr 12, 2020, 11:41 PM UTC

Razengan wrote: post #90

Tinfoil hat: I'm not keeping active track, but I passively perceived a sheer drop in mentions of the fact that Wuhan has China's first "biosafety level 4" laboratory, coinciding with an increased lambasting of the US's handling of their infections in the general media (" The Wuhan virus is now the American virus "), along with a streak of random US-critical posts (" What is the worst thing the US government has done?…

Because academic research can't be rushed. One of the requirements for an advanced degree is publishing papers, and if coronavirus related can easily bring attention and get the paper published, students would try taking the fast track. This is not good for research in general.

There was a huge debate back in late Jan. early Feb. on Chinese social network about a paper didn't get peer-reviewed spreading all over places with misinformation. Hence the Fudan University post in Chinese was to tighten the publish review, and nothing about delaying the research.

This guardian news only showed the story without context, which is pretty misleading.

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#212

Post by hoot » Sun, Apr 12, 2020, 11:42 PM UTC

nikofeyn wrote: post #177

yutyut wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, that wouldn't be a very smart thing to do at all.

yes, indeed. however, you'll note by the downvotes no one here wants to be reasonable. it's a trend i've noticed on hacker news. this site claims a lot to be unbiased and evidence based, but i have noticed when it comes to china, all reason floats out the window. it's a dangerous effect because there are actual problems that are exacerbated and confused by propaganda and unfounded claims from the other side, which al…

I've noticed this as well. Does China have any stake in HN that would allow them to sway discussions?

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#213

Post by BryanBigs » Sun, Apr 12, 2020, 11:42 PM UTC

knzhou wrote: post #146

rumanator wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the researchers at that lab was also effectively dissapeared. Source?

There are no sources. I've personally looked into tens of claims about people being "disappeared" in China over the past few years, and literally every time the only evidence has been "they haven't tweeted for 12 hours". The person reappears soon after, but by that point the lie's damage is done, and nobody ever hears the correction.

Source?

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#214

Post by jotakami » Sun, Apr 12, 2020, 11:44 PM UTC

godtoldmetodoit wrote: post #45

tanilama wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think dailymail or nationalreivew are reputable source other than presenting a story. There is an article on Nature one month ago on this topic: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9 > Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus

That doesn't mean it didn't come from a lab though. "Coming from a lab" does not = man made. If they were doing research on the bats in this lab, looking to identify potential scary viruses to be ready, it is entirely possible the virus jumped from bat to researcher there and that was our patient 0.

How many times do we need to repeat this... everyone assumes that “came from a lab” means “engineered bioweapon”. No!

Also, people quickly forget that humans have been selectively evolving plants and animals for thousands of years without touching the actual genomes.

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#215

Post by godelski » Sun, Apr 12, 2020, 11:44 PM UTC

knzhou wrote: post #139

Razengan wrote: post #90

Tinfoil hat: I'm not keeping active track, but I passively perceived a sheer drop in mentions of the fact that Wuhan has China's first "biosafety level 4" laboratory, coinciding with an increased lambasting of the US's handling of their infections in the general media (" The Wuhan virus is now the American virus "), along with a streak of random US-critical posts (" What is the worst thing the US government has done?…

Wow. It's incredible that it doesn't even take supporting the outgroup to be accused of shilling -- these days even failing to laser focus on condemning the outgroup is enough. Reddit is having a lot more posts about America just because there's a lot going on in the country right now. In late February there were tons of posts about Italy. In early February there were tons of posts about China. The posts about China…

I'd argue that Reddit has a more US centric voice because... it has a more US centric userbase. [0] I don't think it is because there is more going on in the US but more that people tend to be focused on the things that are closer to them.

[0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/325144/reddit-global-act...

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#216

Post by taiwanboy » Sun, Apr 12, 2020, 11:44 PM UTC

knzhou wrote: post #143

taiwanboy wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On 1/22, Xi jinping and CCP blocked internal transportation such as railways, subways, ferries, trains and domestic flights in and out of Wuhan. But still let international flights in and out of Wuhan. If the coronavirus wasn’t weaponized with that intent I don’t know what is.

Those international flights were allowed to let countries evacuate their own citizens out. If they were banned, you would be making the exact same complaint but reversed: "China held other countries' citizens hostage in Wuhan." Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Misinformation. There were still Wuhan tourists as late as 1/28

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7937943/amp/Air-pas...

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#217

Post by taiwanboy » Sun, Apr 12, 2020, 11:44 PM UTC

thankswell wrote: post #183

taiwanboy wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On 1/22, Xi jinping and CCP blocked internal transportation such as railways, subways, ferries, trains and domestic flights in and out of Wuhan. But still let international flights in and out of Wuhan. If the coronavirus wasn’t weaponized with that intent I don’t know what is.

I don't know your intention but it's unwise to spread disinformation on HN, "taiwanboy". 武汉天河国际机场于23日13时关闭离港。航空公司方面，国泰港龙航空、春秋航空、吉祥航空、中国南方航空、中国东方航空、全日空等航司取消或调整多班来往武汉的班机[29]。1月24日天河机场本场仅允许国际航班进港并当日空返，另有两架运送救灾物资的顺丰航空货机抵港[30] Note that the international airline is allowed in but leave empty . 天河机场自4月8日起恢复运营，暂不恢复国际航班和北京往返航班[58] Until April 8, international airlines are still not restored, i.e. all airlines are stopped dur…

Misinformation. There were still Wuhan tourists as late as 1/28

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7937943/amp/Air-pas...

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#218

Post by nikofeyn » Sun, Apr 12, 2020, 11:46 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #173

nikofeyn wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why in the world would someone release a bioweapon that would have major and potentially permanent repercussions for their own people and economy?

No normal person would, but accidents do happen especially if you’re lax with protocol and also there crazy people like Amerithrax incidents back in early 2000s where presumably someone with access seems to have had a grudge or something. That said, it’s one possibility among others, though the animal reservoir theory is the most viable and accepted at this time.

i feel it's a totally dangerous thing to be claiming such things though. it's an incredibly unlikely possibility and strong evidence should be provided before spreading rumors. we have no way of knowing who started these rumors in the first place.

for example, this article is a great read: http://nautil.us/issue/83/intelligence/the-man-who-saw-the-p...

people making baseless claims about the virus, which is happening everywhere and in particular is coming from the u.s., will only seek to harm things for everyone in the long run. it will cause governments to clam up (already happening) and has politicized the virus. now, experts' opinions and life work, like that found in the above article, will continue to be ignored in the chaos that is ensuing.

if the experts on zoonotic viruses are to be believed (why wouldn't you?), then it is clear that there are systematic problems that are leading to the increasing crossover of these zoonotic viruses. by politicizing the virus and hyper focusing on its political enemy, the u.s. is making this thing much, much, much worse (in addition to increasing the current spread within its own borders) and will lessen the impact on preventing future outbreaks. we as a species already struggle to address the issues that cause these outbreaks (overpopulation, encroachment on habitats, socioeconomic issues, etc.), and these actions of rumors and associated behavior, found on this site even, will bury the actual problems, turning everything into a childish and chaotic argument.

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#219

Post by jotakami » Sun, Apr 12, 2020, 11:47 PM UTC

andromeduck wrote: post #25

dchyrdvh wrote: post #18

My favorite theory is that the Wuhan virus lab created the virus and used bats in experiments. One bat escaped and infected other bats that eventually ended up on the wet market in Wuhan. Edit: a more plausible theory is that one researcher got bitten by an infected bat and chose to hide this fact.

My understanding is that nobody has found signs of that in the sequenced genome. By all accounts the jump to humans appears to have been natrual.

It’s also “natural” to take your mare over to the prize stallion to get impregnated. Humans can control all the conditions around the “natural” process.

Re: China clamping down on coronavirus research, deleted pages suggest

#220

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Apr 12, 2020, 11:47 PM UTC

Aperocky wrote: post #38

swiley wrote: post #11

Combined with the researcher at the lab that was disappeared this is pretty convincing.

LOL everyone in China 'disappear' when they decide to not post on social media for X amount of days. Of course you never hear story that they're 'found' by posting or doing something again - despite the fact that they almost always do.

[deleted]