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Chloroquine, past and present

blogs.sciencemag.org

211–220 of 320 posts

Re: Chloroquine, past and present

#211
post #144

This is pretty interesting. I've been taking Plaquenil (hydroxochloroquine) regularly for 6 months now to control an auto-immune disease, and I came down with potential symptoms of covid-19 2 weeks ago, but it was very mild - just a sore throat and cough that lasted 4 days, and I had a slight fever the first night. I self quarantined just in case, but after recovering thought I must have just caught a cold, since my…

You can get an antibodies test that you can do at home with a finger prick. Need to google it. I am about to one since I had symptoms couple weeks ago after being in the same room with someone with an uncontrollable cough.

> You can get an antibodies test that you can do at home with a finger prick.

Here's a recent discussion on $15 kit for SARS-CoV-2 serological test: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22641946

iirc, Singapore announced a plan to do these tests to find total infections.

Re: Chloroquine, past and present

#212
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardon the dumb question, but has anyone just tried quinine? I've been wondering if a hefty gin and tonic would help matters.

I'm taking it, I've also got my family and neighbors on it. I was unable to convince doctors since February to take me seriously that hydroxychloroquine is likely to have prophylactic effects so I took matters into my own hands. I know what I'm doing. Those who don't know what they are doing should not just jump in since they need to manage and understand the dose, the drug interactions, and the side effects. None of…

Quinine hasn’t been used for malaria prophylaxis since the times of the British Empire. Even for its successor, Wikipedia has this:

> Areas of the world with chloroquine sensitive malaria are uncommon.[84]

The overlap between countries with few cases of Coronavirus and those with Malaria is tenuous at best. Turkey doesn’t have Malaria, and for that matter neither does Russia.

People in Malaria areas also tend not to use pharmacological prophylaxis, because the side-effects are impossible to tolerate in the long term. Prophylaxis is for tourists. That’s why mosquito nets are such effective intervention.

Re: Chloroquine, past and present

#213
post #85
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The half life is 2 months. Any bad reaction will linger. Compared to antibiotics with a 8 hour half life. Lets stay home instead.

>Lets stay home instead. For a couple of weeks, fine. However on the other end of this spectrum is "Millions starve". At some point we need to ask is that fair to the youth? (note: I'm an old fart)

At some point it's not even fair to those most at risk for covid-19.

Re: Chloroquine, past and present

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate an expert opinion here. What do you think is the actual rate of adverse events from Chloloroquine, and of what severity?

One of the comments in the article: I prescribe Plaquenil extensively in patients with autoimmune conditions.The safety profile of this drug is excellent. It is also still used for malaria prophylaxis in healthy individuals .it is not a new drug. I don’t see the reason of labeling it as dangerous. The question is : does it work for Covid19 prevention and treatment? The answer is “the current limited evidence suggests…

This whole incident hasn't done much to shake my impression that US doctors are interested first and foremost in making sure they get their "cut" on every prescription, even when the drug is relatively innocuous.

Like fine, we can have this discussion about chloroquine. It's behind-the-counter in the UK, so on par with sudafed in terms of access control, and OTC in a lot of countries that actually have to deal with malaria directly. But the same argument gets applied to stuff like oral contraceptives, which are straight-up OTC in a lot of countries too, and can simply be discontinued if you notice symptoms.

At the same time, we allow drugs with insanely narrow theraputic ranges like tylenol/acetaminophen/paracetamol (seriously, almost as bad as the chloroquine people are freaking out about, a normal dose is 1-4g and a lethal dose can be as low as 5g) to be sold OTC here with no questions whatsoever. We allow combination products despite obvious risks for multiple dosing, we allow combination products to "dissuade addicts" from abusing opiods (like any addict has ever been dissuaded by a risk bodily harm). And doctors don't make a peep about that, because they're not accustomed to getting their cut on that one.

That's also why the AMA resists nurse practitioners so hard. The truth is, a lot of those drugs really should be "behind the counter", a pharmacist should simply have to give you a quick rundown of possible symptoms and what to do if you notice them (discontinue and see a doctor or go to a hospital depending on urgency, same as you would do with a doctor-prescribed drug), but doctors won't allow that because they wouldn't get their cut, so we just call them "nurse practitioners" instead.

US doctors really like playing gatekeeper, to a much greater extent than other countries (where coincidentally, money doesn't come into the picture as much).

Re: Chloroquine, past and present

#215
post #85
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The half life is 2 months. Any bad reaction will linger. Compared to antibiotics with a 8 hour half life. Lets stay home instead.

>Lets stay home instead. For a couple of weeks, fine. However on the other end of this spectrum is "Millions starve". At some point we need to ask is that fair to the youth? (note: I'm an old fart)

We're not even on the "couple of weeks" scale here. Unless we have a drug that can effectively treat coronavirus, we will have to shelter in place until a vaccine is available. 12-18 months.

Re: Chloroquine, past and present

#216
post #179

Also take a look at thymoquinone, which supposedly inhibits mouse coronavirus, which is very similar to SARS-coronavirus. The effects of Nigella sativa (Ns), Anthemis hyalina (Ah) and Citrus sinensis (Cs) extracts on the replication of coronavirus and the expression of TRP genes family https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3933739/ Thymoquinone is also generally protective of lung health in several models: htt…

Pardon the dumb question, but has anyone just tried quinine? I've been wondering if a hefty gin and tonic would help matters.

that's been asked in literally every thread that has discussed this and no, modern tonic water is not as strong as the stuff the british used to make and is not an effective dose for either malaria or covid. You'd need to drink 30 liters or so a day to get a single dose, you'd kill your kidneys first.

tonic syrup/concentrate, maybe.

Re: Chloroquine, past and present

#217
post #215
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Lets stay home instead. For a couple of weeks, fine. However on the other end of this spectrum is "Millions starve". At some point we need to ask is that fair to the youth? (note: I'm an old fart)

We're not even on the "couple of weeks" scale here. Unless we have a drug that can effectively treat coronavirus, we will have to shelter in place until a vaccine is available. 12-18 months.

When did we switch from 'flattening the curve' to 'trying to keep anyone from getting sick'? I thought we were mostly all going to get it this year, but we didn't want everyone getting it in a 1 month period?

Re: Chloroquine, past and present

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't virologists predicting that 60-70% are going to get it, no matter what? What is the "extended time" that you are talking about? Close to half of COVID infections result not even in a cough. Going by the mostly elderly population on the Diamond Princess, mortality with proper treatment is going to be significantly lower than 1%. Flatten the curve? Sure, but we can't be locking down the entire country indefinite…

> Close to half of COVID infections result not even in a cough. Possibly? > Going by the mostly elderly population on the Diamond Princess, mortality with proper treatment is going to be significantly lower than 1%. If we're all sick at once can we all get proper treatment? We're all making assumptions and treating our ideas like they have to be true. We still don't actually know, we will only know in retrospective,…

We actually will not know even in retrospective, because the alternative scenarios will not play out.

I am not saying everyone should get sick at once, a certain period of isolation is acceptable - for now.

In the long term, it is not reasonable to isolate everyone. Covid-19 will stay with us for years.

Re: Chloroquine, past and present

#219
post #207
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't resetting the global warming clock. Atmospheric CO2 is still going up not down. It's a temporary and small reduction in CO2 output coupled with a much more severe and much longer term reduction in scientific output that might actually solve global warming, and a much longer term and much more severe economic recession that limits our options to (further) hurt the economy to switch to greener means of energ…

Not sure you can have it both ways. Either shutting down all Chinese factories for a period of time reduced CO2. Or they made no difference and we can run those factories without fear. Wouldn't a global recession/depression reduce production? Increased funding for scientific output or more climate models isn't going to make a difference. People have to buy and use less. You can't have it both ways here either.

If we set the rate of increase of atmospheric CO2 to 0, a far greater reduction than actually occurred, we would be pausing the clock on global warming, which is a very far cry from resetting the clock. Yes, the emissions reduction helped, but not a fraction as much as you claimed.

> Increased funding for scientific output or more climate models isn't going to make a difference. People have to buy and use less. You can't have it both ways here either.

The science I'm most interested in isn't climate models. It's better solar panels, or better wind turbines, or better batteries, or better fission reactors, or (useful) fusion reactors, or space based solar shades, or ways to remove CO2 from the atmosphere, and so on.

People buying and using enough less unfortunately does not seem to be a realistic solution to the problem. People buying less might be able to delay us hitting disastrous amounts of warming by a few years, but that only buys us time for the above kinds of research.

Re: Chloroquine, past and present

#220
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardon the dumb question, but has anyone just tried quinine? I've been wondering if a hefty gin and tonic would help matters.

I'm taking it, I've also got my family and neighbors on it. I was unable to convince doctors since February to take me seriously that hydroxychloroquine is likely to have prophylactic effects so I took matters into my own hands. I know what I'm doing. Those who don't know what they are doing should not just jump in since they need to manage and understand the dose, the drug interactions, and the side effects. None of…

Lmao.
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