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Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

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Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#211

Post by dijit »

shuckles wrote: post #197
dijit wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a junior sysadmin in London I earned 26k; If not for a senior engineer talking openly about salary I would not have had the guts to ask for a significant increase. At the time the very senior people in the company were earning 75-85k, and the mid-levels between 32-45k. I was fortunate enough to be taught very well, I became senior in that company in a very short amount of time, but I never got the raise th…

Not on topic, but can you point me to some information about the spending habits of someone making that much in a city which I understand is fairly expensive?

How much money? 26k?

I was living in a shared house in Lewisham; which is not an attractive area of the city, the house itself was fairly run-down and there was no heating (electricty would power off because it was on a meter). This room cost me 400gbp/mo, and I put 20gbp for electric and 20gbp for gas in the meters every month.

Food was relatively cheap, at most another 400gbp/mo

Phone contract was 30gbp/mo, that was my entire outgoing essentially.

1,700gbp was my net salary (roughly) so I had around 20-30% of that to "play" with, most of it went on trains to see my family or taking girls out for expensive dinners though.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#212

Post by theredlion »

scarface74 wrote: post #180
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If women behave differently, why would you expect universally equal outcomes?

In an ideal world, If two people have the same job and have the same skills and bring the same amount of internal knowledge to the company they should be paid the same. Their salary shouldn’t be affected by their negotiation ability. As far as women not applying, that’s the classic pipeline problem. You have to get women to apply. Also if jobs come from referrals, if men mostly know other men, they are going to recom…

> Their salary shouldn’t be affected by their negotiation ability.

I can't disagree more with this statement. Salary is a negotiation process between an employee and an employer. Employers are always trying to keep costs as low as possible and employees are trying to sell themselves to gain as high a salary as possible.

This sounds awfully close to ideas I've heard from pro-Socialist types who would like pure equality of income across job titles not just in a company, but ACROSS companies. That is a world you do not want to live in.

Not employees, employers, NOR the general public want that future regardless of how much they unfoundedly believe it is helping anyone.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#213

Post by senordevnyc »

xenihn wrote: post #187
senordevnyc wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at a big tech company and I have friends at many others. What you’re reporting does not match my experience, theirs, the data, or common sense. These companies are constantly getting flak for low diversity. If white men were a clear minority, they’d be shouting it from the rooftops. What you observe in your day to day is a poor barometer for the overall diversity of an entire industry.

You seem to be missing the point entirely (most clearly evidenced by you using the term "clear minority", when no one made anything resembling that claim), so let me try to break it down for you. The goal is to eventually reach a 50/50 gender distribution (or as close as possible) for the sake of diversity, right? If you understand the concept of trends, and you are actually looking at all of the things that you just…

You’re layering a lot of assumptions onto my post, about me and the points you think I’m trying to make. Almost all of them are inaccurate.

The only point I’m trying to make is this: your claim that “there are as many Asian female software developers in the Bay Area as there are white male software developers” is false according to the data we have, and it doesn’t make logical sense either. That’s it.

From the link I shared:

Reveal’s data shows that the share of women of color drops higher up at large tech companies. Among professionals – engineers, designers and analysts, for example – 12 percent were Asian women in 2016, but 8 percent of managers and 4.5 percent of executives were Asian women.

The reverse is true for white men, who accounted for about 39 percent of professionals, 47 percent of managers and 59 percent of executives.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#214

Post by RestlessMind »

senordevnyc wrote: post #49
theredlion wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting question. I'm personally aware of several large companies in my area which, due to diversity pressure, blatantly discriminate in favor of minorities and women. The performance required from a white man in an interview for the same job is higher. That is to say that a white man will be openly discarded in favor of a minority/woman with a similar background when applying for the same job. This is…

Do you have any evidence for this? Have you seen data covering hiring evals for many different candidates? Or is this just your own bias telling a story based on anecdotes and rumors? I’m not saying this never happens, but it’s much easier to tell yourself that the reason you didn’t get a job was because of some unfair factor beyond your control than to admit maybe you just failed to meet the bar.

Here is some evidence (especially see the exhibits in the linked PDF at the end)

On January 29, 2018, YouTube technical recruiter Arne Wilberg filed a suit accusing Google “of systematically discriminating in favor job applicants who are Hispanic, African American, or female, and against Caucasian and Asian men.”

https://www.scribd.com/document/372802863/18-CIV-00442-ARNE-...

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#215

Post by n4r9 »

vertig0h wrote: post #181
tsycho wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orthogonal to your anecdote, tech salaries in London are ridiculously low :(

Welcome to Europe. European salaries in general are low. Take home pay too, and goods and services are much more expensive. It's important for people to realize this, that "free" healthcare, education, etc. are far from free.

Not all goods and services are more expensive, in my experience. I've been living in Cali (not bay area) for a couple of months now and the price of fresh fruit and veg in the shops is outrageous compared to UK. Bell peppers for example seem to cost two or three times as much, even though California is the top producing state in the US. Eating out in restaurants is definitely more expensive when you factor the tip in, whilst fast food is comparably priced. The only good that I've found to be noticeably cheaper is petrol.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#216

Post by octonion »

vertig0h wrote: post #181
tsycho wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orthogonal to your anecdote, tech salaries in London are ridiculously low :(

Welcome to Europe. European salaries in general are low. Take home pay too, and goods and services are much more expensive. It's important for people to realize this, that "free" healthcare, education, etc. are far from free.

Please push your political propaganda somewhere else, like 4chan or Facebook.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#217

Post by scarface74 »

theredlion wrote: post #212
scarface74 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an ideal world, If two people have the same job and have the same skills and bring the same amount of internal knowledge to the company they should be paid the same. Their salary shouldn’t be affected by their negotiation ability. As far as women not applying, that’s the classic pipeline problem. You have to get women to apply. Also if jobs come from referrals, if men mostly know other men, they are going to recom…

> Their salary shouldn’t be affected by their negotiation ability. I can't disagree more with this statement. Salary is a negotiation process between an employee and an employer. Employers are always trying to keep costs as low as possible and employees are trying to sell themselves to gain as high a salary as possible. This sounds awfully close to ideas I've heard from pro-Socialist types who would like pure equalit…

Isn’t it a stretch to call it “socialism” that the same job at the same company with two people who have the same set of skills “socialism”?

In that case though since a free market is conditioned on both sides having equal knowledge would you be okay if employees were forced to disclose all employees salaries?

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#218

Post by RestlessMind »

senordevnyc wrote: post #101
xenihn wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see just as many asian female engineers as white male software engineers in the bay. And more asian female engineers than male black+hispanic+pacific islander+native american engineers combined. You should be much more concerned with class than gender, otherwise you won't actually solve any issues related to diversity. You'll only make it worse.

I see just as many asian female engineers as white male software engineers in the bay. There’s almost no chance this is true. “White” and “male” are both overrepresented in software engineering. Would love to see the data though.

Here is diversity data from Google, one of the biggest tech companies in the US / bay area: https://diversity.google/annual-report/#!#_this-years-data

Relevant numbers from "Intersectional workforce representation" section for overall Google workforce: 38.8% White men, 26.4% Asian+ men, 15.7% White women, 13.3% Asian+ women, 9.9% everyone else.

For Google workforce in tech: 41.3% White men, 31.9% Asian+ men, 13.2% Asian+ women, 9.9% White women, 7.3% everyone else.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#219

Post by unishark »

n4r9 wrote: post #215
vertig0h wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to Europe. European salaries in general are low. Take home pay too, and goods and services are much more expensive. It's important for people to realize this, that "free" healthcare, education, etc. are far from free.

Not all goods and services are more expensive, in my experience. I've been living in Cali (not bay area) for a couple of months now and the price of fresh fruit and veg in the shops is outrageous compared to UK. Bell peppers for example seem to cost two or three times as much, even though California is the top producing state in the US. Eating out in restaurants is definitely more expensive when you factor the tip in…

Bell pepper pricing is just bizarre.

Plenty other forms of produce are dirt cheap. You can eat fruits and salad every day and do it cheaper than any other country I've been to, as long as you don't insist on outliers like multi-colored bell peppers in your food.

As for restaurants, technically fast food counts as restaurants. So I'd be surprised if the US wasn't one of the cheapest in the developed world there too. Hard to compare if you want to factor in quality though.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#220

Post by killerjoe »

vertig0h wrote: post #181
tsycho wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orthogonal to your anecdote, tech salaries in London are ridiculously low :(

Welcome to Europe. European salaries in general are low. Take home pay too, and goods and services are much more expensive. It's important for people to realize this, that "free" healthcare, education, etc. are far from free.

Correct. I can barely reach 120k usd in a fairly high salary eu country, while with the same expertise in USA could go easily above 300k
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