Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How the CIA used Crypto AG encryption devices to spy on countries for decades

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 353 posts

Re: How the CIA used Crypto AG encryption devices to spy on countries for decades

#211

Post by einpoklum »

friendly_fren wrote: post #198
ozim wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, nah I don't think people understand that they created NSA. It is them and their neighbor living in quiet area paying taxes where government want to keep them quiet and keep paying. This way of things is giving birth to idealism and naivete. Just like people living in cities are idealistic and naive about life of cattle and poultry. You don't want innocent chicken to be killed, but it is tasty. You don't want inn…

A spy agency is necessary for the USA to compete on the world stage. Though, it's operations should be significantly limited. The CIA is a disaster that needs to be dismantled.

The conceit of planetary-level politics being a "competition" is - with due respect - propaganda of the imperialist powers, that most of us are being fed and expected to buy into. Don't.

In fact, with deepening global threats like climate change and nuclear war (), it is becoming clear just how mortally dangerous such perceptions are. So: Stop supporting "competition on the world stage".

---

Yes, that is still a thing and making quite the comeback; see:

https://www.newsweek.com/us-military-new-nuclear-weapons-782...

and

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/28/us-nuclear-wea...

for example.

Re: How the CIA used Crypto AG encryption devices to spy on countries for decades

#212

Post by johnflan »

wycy wrote: post #4

Two parts of interest that jumped out to me: > The overlapping accounts expose frictions between the two partners over money, control and ethical limits, with the West Germans frequently aghast at the enthusiasm with which U.S. spies often targeted allies. > Hagelin had once hoped to turn control over to his son, Bo. But U.S. intelligence officials regarded him as a “wild card” and worked to conceal the partnership f…

> There were no indications of foul play. Yup

Re: How the CIA used Crypto AG encryption devices to spy on countries for decades

#214

Post by einpoklum »

ozim wrote: post #173
streb-lo wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize there is a world that exists beyond your idealism and naivete?

Hmm, nah I don't think people understand that they created NSA. It is them and their neighbor living in quiet area paying taxes where government want to keep them quiet and keep paying. This way of things is giving birth to idealism and naivete. Just like people living in cities are idealistic and naive about life of cattle and poultry. You don't want innocent chicken to be killed, but it is tasty. You don't want inn…

I would say it is the _opposite_ of what you suggest. That is, people are willing to accept the existence of oppressive institutions because they are kept ignorant about their terrible impact. And those who aren't ignorant are fearful.

On a personal note: I' been arrested, I've been beaten, I've been in court and I've been in prison (*) to uphold and promote my beliefs and principles. And I do software development too... it's possible :-)

Re: How the CIA used Crypto AG encryption devices to spy on countries for decades

#215

Post by EthanHeilman »

ChrisCinelli wrote: post #183
einpoklum wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think most of us would be fine with the NSA doing what they do if it was targeted You think wrong. That fact that there are opposing world states engaging in this nefarious, oppressive, terrible acts and they're not all aligned doesn't legitimize any of these states' activities. The NSA should essentially be shut down, or cut down to a small agency operating in public with a much more limited mandate. And no secr…

Just watch the "Mission Impossible" franchising. They are obviously dramatized stories but I would not be surprised that the world has been very closed to cease to exist as we know it and the only thing that prevented was that they did their job. Only few people know what they have done, no glory, no prizes, no recognition. What kind of people do that? Heros. Feel free to down vote me. I can only guess but I would no…

I only downvoted this comment because the poster wrote:

>"Feel free to down vote me".

Re: How the CIA used Crypto AG encryption devices to spy on countries for decades

#216

Post by einpoklum »

mirimir wrote: post #209
einpoklum wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think most of us would be fine with the NSA doing what they do if it was targeted You think wrong. That fact that there are opposing world states engaging in this nefarious, oppressive, terrible acts and they're not all aligned doesn't legitimize any of these states' activities. The NSA should essentially be shut down, or cut down to a small agency operating in public with a much more limited mandate. And no secr…

I love privacy 'n' stuff, for sure. But relative to the risk of global nuclear war, and the certainty of global climate disruption, I couldn't care less about the NSA and its adversaries. And hey, maybe all that spying reduces the risk of overt war.

Why do you believe NSA spying decreases the risk of nuclear war, or helps stave off climate change?

Also, it's not that we "love privacy", it's that we dislike oppression. And believe you me - most people in my part of the world know very well how the US is oppressing them through military and intelligence means. We don't want to live under the US' boot, and the NSA is part of that boot.

Re: How the CIA used Crypto AG encryption devices to spy on countries for decades

#217

Post by jfk13 »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #80
edm0nd wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure the US government is why the TrueCrypt devs stopped all work. They got hit with a national security letter (NSL) or heavily leaned on and pressured to stop making their product so awesome and un-breakable.

From the TrueCrypt webpage: http://truecrypt.sourceforge.net/ > WARNING: Using TrueCrypt is not secure as it may contain unfixed security issues The fact that they use awkward wording that contains words whose first letters that start with NSA (not secure as) is pretty suggestive that you are right.

Doesn't seem like awkward wording to me (as a native English speaker, fwiw); just a routine disclaimer.

I suppose the fact that it contains words that start with TIN (TrueCrypt is not) provides sufficient justification for your hat, anyhow.

Re: How the CIA used Crypto AG encryption devices to spy on countries for decades

#218

Post by tptacek »

nyolfen wrote: post #190
tptacek wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your expectation, then, would have been that if NSA had a cryptological capability unknown to the academic literature, it would have put it "on tap" for analysts to call on at random?

who else is it for?

So that's a "yes"? Presumably you think, similarly, that if NSA, say, breaks all elliptic curve discrete log crypto, a random analyst inside NSA will be able to submit a ticket and break random crypto?

No, I don't think that's how it works. A class break in a core cryptography primitive or even a major break in a particular crypto format would be one of the most closely protected SIGINT secrets in the country; the number of people who would be exposed to even knowledge of its existence would be very low.

Re: How the CIA used Crypto AG encryption devices to spy on countries for decades

#219

Post by jMyles »

nyolfen wrote: post #123
netsec_burn wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting my tinfoil hat on, after reading the Snowden disclosures I'm convinced that they do have limited means of attacking encrypted communication but they would rather rely on these (expendable) means. Once they lose their crypto vulnerabilities it will force them to be even more overt.

snowden explicitly said pgp was safe

He said that, from his vantage point, analysts at BAH didn't have access to capabilities to break PGP emails.

To be sure, that's an important fact. And it does mean that PGP (and for that matter, similar cryptosystems with robust implementations) create a palpable and useful protection against this kind of analysis.

But in the event that the NSA (or other agencies engaged in signals intelligence) have an attack wholly unknown to the literature, it's unlikely that it will be provided in the same toolchain as hunky-dory man-in-the-middle style attacks, such as those disclosed in Snowden's famous slides.

I'm not saying NSA can break PGP - I think they almost certainly can't. But Snowden's revelation on this point shows only that the analysts he was supporting don't have access to novel attacks, not that novel attacks don't exist.

Re: How the CIA used Crypto AG encryption devices to spy on countries for decades

#220

Post by jml78 »

einpoklum wrote: post #200
streb-lo wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize there is a world that exists beyond your idealism and naivete?

I'm sure that's what you would have told me 300 years ago if I claimed we should abolish monarchy and hereditary rule...

I am fine getting rid of the NSA as soon as you can guarantee that Russia and China dismantle their equivalents. Not to mention all the other agencies in the world.

Sorry but when you talk of those two in particular, the US is the obvious good guy. Regardless of the terrible shit Trump has done, we would never accept him murdering journalists or critics. That shit happens regularly in Russia and China

Post reply on HN