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Angular 9.0

blog.angular.io

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Re: Angular 9.0

#211

Post by JMTQp8lwXL »

momento wrote: post #178
JoeNr76 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been doing Angular for 5+ years now. I think you might be using it wrong because I never experienced anything like that.

Angular has a lot of unique concepts that people find difficult to wrap their heads around. The Observable pattern, decorators, typescript, etc. When you throw things like NGRX and effective management of state / side-effects in the mix; things get exponentially more complex and difficult to scale. I have personally witnessed companies take guys who have been slapping together "apps" in jQuery / .NET for the past 10…

Agreed. "Unscalable" code is completely possible to write in Angular or React. Simply put, it's bad code that doesn't follow the paradigms of the framework it lives in, with all of the usual suspects (spaghetti code) sprinkled in.

Re: Angular 9.0

#212

Post by JMTQp8lwXL »

ghego1 wrote: post #207
crubier wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the disdain comes from the fact that people don’t like getting a whole house (like angular) built on shaky grounds, but prefer a clean basic foundation (like react) where they can lay whatever bricks they like on top (routing, data management). It feels cleaner and more solid.

Your argument is flawed with a very opinionative starting point, which is that Angular wouldn't provide a solid foundation. This is, at the very best, very debatable. In my experience, it's the very opposite. Angular gives you very solid foundations as it's a proper framework that ships everything you need to build scalable apps. So you start from something small, and as you grow you know you can do so without rethin…

The real difference between the two frameworks boils down to developer happiness. In Angular, all of the choices are made for you. For some, the lack of autonomy and agency when writing Angular applications makes those developers sad. It's hard to take pride and ownership in your work when 90% of everything has been decided for you, and if you try to eject from the "Angular" way of doing this, you end up just writing bad Angular code.

Choice to pick the best of breed solution to each smaller problem within the context of building an enterprise grade web application is at the heart of React. I get to look at all published routers and choose the one with the most intuitive API to me: I get to look at bundle sizes, and consider trade-offs.

Re: Angular 9.0

#213

Post by JMTQp8lwXL »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #201
crubier wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, the web apps I wrote in 2014 in react still work flawlessly. Join us, you’ll enjoy the ride!

I wouldn't expect anything else to be honest; as long as the underlying JS / HTML does not change, anything written 10, 20 years ago should still work now. Browsers (= your application runtime) are pretty good with backwards compatibility, and not touching your application should not break things. Unless it's doing unsafe or nonstandard stuff in the first place, like idk, cross-domain requests or weird stuff with ifr…

One day, all Meteor.js apps went blank in production (you'd just get a blank screen) due to a change in Chrome, that required everyone to upgrade (albeit, a non-breaking change, so it was easy to accept). I had been building an enterprise application on top of Meteor. The outage caused a huge lack of confidence among my customers.

Re: Angular 9.0

#214

Post by orange8 »

spaceribs wrote: post #205
crubier wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For routing react-router is just perfect. And for data source/state management there is plenty of choice, I use Apollo for global state/data source and useState for small state full interactions, I can’t see how it could get simpler. But whatever floats you boat really, the point is that the nice part of vue are inspired by react anyway. I wish the two community merged, to be honest, I see no point in dividing for su…

> But whatever floats you boat really You specifically argued against that, your arguments seem to be highly religious in nature. I don't know how many years you've worked in the industry but if you think React will be the dominant way of building apps for the next ten years, I have some Adobe Flash developers who I'm sure would like to say a few words.

haha! Former hotshot Flash ActionScript 3 Ninja Developer reporting for duty as requested.

Seriously though, JSX and TypeScript are nothing new. Both were part of ActionScript 3, a big language backed by a powerful company (Adobe). 15 years later, nobody even remembers it existed. How am I still making a comfortable living coding today? By not getting too attached to any language or framework... they are all just tools in the end.

So let the young ones be, time will eventually teach them those lessons, sooner than they think.

Re: Angular 9.0

#215

Post by JMTQp8lwXL »

johnnyAghands wrote: post #157
dnautics wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can put a junior in react and be fairly sure that nothing too crazy will happen. I can't say the same for angular.

A lot of enterprises hiring juniors on the cheap actually thought of it in the opposite way. They saw Angular's rigidity as some sort of safety rails to help guide developers in the rightish direction. They thought React was the Wild Wild West of JS land ;D No manager got fired for choosing Angular. If only

I'm kind of surprised this is downvoted. There are definitely companies out there that chose Angular because it enforces writing code within the framework's style. It feels like bowling with the guard rails on, and if your team leans junior, it seems sensible to opt for that choice.

I'm not saying I personally agree with the decision, but I could see how management might conclude to chose Angular with that rationale.

Re: Angular 9.0

#216

Post by jbergens »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #112
crubier wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the exact opposite opinion. React is the only sane way to do web development. All other approaches are deeply flawed by either relying on imperative mutations of the DOM instead of clean declarative code, or by relying on ugly templating syntax and data attributes instead of just using JS basic constructs like react. The power of react is just at its beginning, as we can see with things like react-three-fiber…

I'm not a React hater (in fact, I like it a lot when it fits ) but I think when people criticize React, they're actually after the one-size-fits-all attitude displayed in comments such as yours. No, React is clearly not "the only sane way of doing web development" considering the web hosts many types of markup applications, the most successful ones predating React by decades.

I personally think React scales well both up and down but you can avoid Redux for small things. Use Mobx or some easier state management lib and you are all set.

Re: Angular 9.0

#217

Post by BjoernKW »

momento wrote: post #178
JoeNr76 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been doing Angular for 5+ years now. I think you might be using it wrong because I never experienced anything like that.

Angular has a lot of unique concepts that people find difficult to wrap their heads around. The Observable pattern, decorators, typescript, etc. When you throw things like NGRX and effective management of state / side-effects in the mix; things get exponentially more complex and difficult to scale. I have personally witnessed companies take guys who have been slapping together "apps" in jQuery / .NET for the past 10…

> Observable pattern, decorators, typescript

Neither of those is Angular-specific. In fact, of those you mentioned jQuery is the library with the unusual, idiosyncratic concepts.

Re: Angular 9.0

#218

Post by Cthulhu_ »

projectileboy wrote: post #191
thallukrish wrote: post #159

I have spent a lot of time in Angular 2 and later in Angular 6. I had later switched to plain java script and used requireJS to modularize. I have my own orchestrator to route events like a pub-sub. HTML5 + CSS + plain JS is good enough for most simple UI.

This is a (currently) under-rated approach that would apply well to many sites today.

While I want to agree, at the same time I'm afraid of people creating their own frameworks, re-inventing the wheel, etc. Mind you, Angular feels like a very heavyweight framework, so that would be the other side of the coin.

Personally I wouldn't go for a vanilla JS application, not unless the script / application part of it are minimal.

Re: Angular 9.0

#219

Post by Cthulhu_ »

jbergens wrote: post #216
tannhaeuser wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a React hater (in fact, I like it a lot when it fits ) but I think when people criticize React, they're actually after the one-size-fits-all attitude displayed in comments such as yours. No, React is clearly not "the only sane way of doing web development" considering the web hosts many types of markup applications, the most successful ones predating React by decades.

I personally think React scales well both up and down but you can avoid Redux for small things. Use Mobx or some easier state management lib and you are all set.

Better yet, avoid it entirely and stick to using React's Context (https://reactjs.org/docs/context.html) or if you have to, useReducer() (https://reactjs.org/docs/hooks-reference.html#usereducer).

Of course, those are lightweight / 'native' (to react) alternatives to redux / state management; last time I used it there were some really neat (theoretical) advantages, such as a browser addon where you could do time traveling debugging (replay individual events) or push the state and all state changes into a support ticket for reproducibility. Purely theoretical though, and at the time using Redux added a lot of mental and labor overhead, especially when using it to manage forms. (personally, I think form data should never be part of a global state; it should be limited to a component that manages the data itself and does not leak it elsewhere. But, it depends on the situation, as always)

Re: Angular 9.0

#220

Post by Cthulhu_ »

ehsankia wrote: post #49
pier25 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 973 KB to 669 KB Is that minified and gzipped?

I would assume angular outputs minified code, but not gzipped. That being said, 973kb seems like large-sized rather than mid-sized to me.

Sounds like you've never actually worked in a large application to me. Not to gatekeep or anything but large web applications will be in the order of millions if not tens of millions of LOC.
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