Tell HN: Mailgun lowers free-tier API from 10k to 625 emails per month • Hacker News Board

Re: Tell HN: Mailgun lowers free-tier API from 10k to 625 emails per month

#211

Post by eb0la » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 7:35 AM UTC

ttul wrote: post #118

My company (MailChannels) sends email on behalf of more domains than any other transactional email provider (see https://trends.builtwith.com/mx/transactional-email/traffic/... ) because our customer base is hosting companies rather than individual senders. The whole transactional space has matured in the past year with SendGrid's acquisition by Twilio and Mailgun passing through a couple of different private equity…

I always thought 'free tier' was meant to make development and testing feasible without incurring big charges.

Having a big free tier is just a growth hacking technique, and it worked: people know the product and developeed integrations.

But, all marketing tactics have a beginning and an end. If the market is mature, and it's ROI is not good enough or has decreased dramatically, it will end soon.

Re: Tell HN: Mailgun lowers free-tier API from 10k to 625 emails per month

#212

Post by arein2 » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 7:39 AM UTC

bigiain wrote: post #172

greglindahl wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the modern era, lots of mailservers run software that looks for weirdnesses in incoming email. I don't know, but I'd suspect that the typing delays of using telnet to send mail are likely to trigger their defenses.

SO I just tested. After working out that on macOS I now need to use nc -c instead of telnet... I _can_ send mail manually, but it _does_ end up in gmails's spam folder saying "Why is this message in spam? It is similar to messages that were identified as spam in the past." Iain-2:~ iain$ nc -c gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com 25 220 mx.google.com ESMTP k5si5682618pls.209 - gsmtp EHLO elided.org 250-mx.google.com at your se…

Some years ago I wrote my email in a forum, available to crawlers. I’ve been getting spam ever since.

Re: Tell HN: Mailgun lowers free-tier API from 10k to 625 emails per month

#213

Post by SwellJoe » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 7:55 AM UTC

I don't think I mind this change. I mostly use my own mail servers, but when I setup a Discourse forum a couple months ago, it was so easy to turn it on with Mailgun that I gave it a try (the forum was migrated from an existing forum that sends about 9,000 email notifications per month, so I was going to be pushing the limit a little bit on the free tier right away). I definitely wasn't, and am not, willing to pay $35 a month for sending email for a forum I'm paying $20/month to host, and for a service I could setup in an afternoon on a $5/month VM, but if they want to charge me $8/month to send 10,0000 messages, I'm absolutely fine with that...the API, bounce processing, reporting, etc. are definitely worth a few bucks.

Mailgun was the obvious choice when I set it up, since it would be completely free for the volume I send, and I'll probably stick with it for that forum that's already using it, but now maybe I'll look around at the other options again for my next project.

Re: Tell HN: Mailgun lowers free-tier API from 10k to 625 emails per month

#214

Post by ezrast » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 8:26 AM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #186

mc3 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative is simple: For stranger to stranger communication, both business and non-business set up a web form. With a challenge if needed. For friend to friend communication, use email, friends' address in on a white list. For business to consumer communication, white list is again used. For spammer to anyone communication, including business lists that refuse to take you off, not on white list so doesn't get i…

What's the easy/low-friction way for Joe Random Consumer to manage their whitelists? An email comes in from a sender address which isn't on the whitelist, but is (in fact) a friend. What's the handling? An email comes in from a sender address which isn't on the whitelist, but is not (in fact) a friend. What's the handling? Do I never hear from the first friend? Or do I get bombarded with "hey, read this email and see…

I'm just shooting from the hip here, but I think it's:

Joe manages his whitelist through his mail provider's web UI. Many providers already use the address book as a whitelist; the only difference is they default to filtration instead of assuming spam.

Joe's friend's mail gets routed to the spam box. Joe's friend gets a bounce notification that says "To be added to Joe's whitelist, click here (and optionally solve a captcha/enter Joe's dog's name/submit a blood sample/deposit $0.25 worth of bitcoin into Joe's wallet)." Joe's friend clicks here, and Joe's mail provider adds Joe's friend to the whitelist and promotes the email to the inbox.

Joe's spammer gets the same message and disregards it. Their email stays in spam forever.

Joe's spam box gets bombarded with "hey, read this email and see if the sender is a friend" a bunch of times. He can trawl through them for actual friends if he wishes.

Re: Tell HN: Mailgun lowers free-tier API from 10k to 625 emails per month

#215

Post by porker » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 9:01 AM UTC

chrisgoman wrote: post #28

Maybe a better idea for them would be to say charge you $10 upfront for 12.5k email credits which should last you a while. Seems like a better deal for "hobbyists" vs a bill at the end of a couple of months. For MG, they can collect payment upfront. I guess maybe for some people, going from free to $10 might be too much of a leap? We were on the "free" Mandrill plan which became PAID (which we were fine paying) but y…

Postmark used to take this approach and it was awesome. Now they've switched to a subscription model for new accounts :(

Re: Tell HN: Mailgun lowers free-tier API from 10k to 625 emails per month

#216

Post by ptx » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 9:06 AM UTC

disillusioned wrote: post #209

webbie917 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really has become a norm and is very frustrating for customers, while there is simply a better way to do this - kill free plan for NEW customers, but grandfather existing customers. Or at least introduce some break-even (low profit margin) plan/tier to move existing customers to, no need to force them off the platform completely. Yes, spammers are a big issue for all ESPs (my own biz in this space is no exception)…

What value are they getting out of carrying a bunch of freeloading accounts? Or put another way: what value are they risking by force-deplatforming the freeloading accounts, besides a bit of splashback from frustrated (non-paying) users?

The value might be a reputation for trustworthiness and fair dealing.

Those "freeloading" accounts are offered by companies to users, for the company's benefit, in order to strengthen their market position and lure users into a trap where they'll have little choice but to pay extortionate prices once they've developed a dependence on the service.

Re: Tell HN: Mailgun lowers free-tier API from 10k to 625 emails per month

#217

Post by codingmess » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 9:15 AM UTC

donmcronald wrote: post #134

ttul wrote: post #118

My company (MailChannels) sends email on behalf of more domains than any other transactional email provider (see https://trends.builtwith.com/mx/transactional-email/traffic/... ) because our customer base is hosting companies rather than individual senders. The whole transactional space has matured in the past year with SendGrid's acquisition by Twilio and Mailgun passing through a couple of different private equity…

The thing that annoys me is the standard operating procedure in tech is to offer stuff for free until a bunch of people depend on it and then to start charging as much as you possibly can once there's a large enough customer base that a reasonable percentage won't have any choice but to bear the updated costs. Mailgun did a pretty nice job by offering a pay-as-you-go tier, but they still took features from the free p…

"offer stuff for free until a bunch of people depend on it"

Nobody can really be surprised by that, though? Meaning people who sign up are aware that it could happen eventually?

Re: Tell HN: Mailgun lowers free-tier API from 10k to 625 emails per month

#218

Post by jwr » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 9:20 AM UTC

codingmess wrote: post #217

donmcronald wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that annoys me is the standard operating procedure in tech is to offer stuff for free until a bunch of people depend on it and then to start charging as much as you possibly can once there's a large enough customer base that a reasonable percentage won't have any choice but to bear the updated costs. Mailgun did a pretty nice job by offering a pay-as-you-go tier, but they still took features from the free p…

"offer stuff for free until a bunch of people depend on it" Nobody can really be surprised by that, though? Meaning people who sign up are aware that it could happen eventually?

Sustainable self-funded SaaS founder here.

Everybody should realize that:

* there is no free lunch

* a VC-funded business is looking to maximize user base and then get sold, so as a customer you are likely looking at a time horizon of ~3-4 years: plan accordingly

* if a niche B2B SaaS offers pricing below $40/month, it's not sustainable and will disappear, so plan accordingly

* if anybody offers you stuff for free, something is wrong, so take advantage at your own peril

But most people do not realize all that, and expect things to be free forever, pay for software once, or for complex B2B applications to be available forever at $5-$19/month.

Re: Tell HN: Mailgun lowers free-tier API from 10k to 625 emails per month

#219

Post by tehbeard » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 9:21 AM UTC

Surprised no one has mentioned the gutting of log retention with the lower tier plans. The logs have been a key value proposition for us in helping to diagnose delivery issues.

Hopefully we stay grandfathered on our old plan, doesn't seem like we've had this email through yet.

Re: Tell HN: Mailgun lowers free-tier API from 10k to 625 emails per month

#220

Post by nrb » Fri, Jan 31, 2020, 9:26 AM UTC

wolco wrote: post #187

bigiain wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SO I just tested. After working out that on macOS I now need to use nc -c instead of telnet... I _can_ send mail manually, but it _does_ end up in gmails's spam folder saying "Why is this message in spam? It is similar to messages that were identified as spam in the past." Iain-2:~ iain$ nc -c gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com 25 220 mx.google.com ESMTP k5si5682618pls.209 - gsmtp EHLO elided.org 250-mx.google.com at your se…

I wonder why google treats this simple email as spam. It contains nothing that should trigger the spam filter aside from where it came from.

Where it came from is one of the most important details!

Is this mail relay actually elided.org or is it impersonating elided.org?

There does not appear to be an SPF record for that domain so Gmail cannot determine if this is a fraudulent message, especially if the machine this request came from does not match the IP of the A record for that domain.