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We’re approaching the limits of computer power – we need new programmers

theguardian.com

211–220 of 265 posts

Re: We’re approaching the limits of computer power – we need new programmers

#211
post #129

There’s also the environmental factor nobody takes into account. Less CPU cycles means less emissions. When a piece of software is used by millions or even billions it must be significant.

There is actually a paper about this topic: "Energy Efficiency across Programming Languages"

Re: We’re approaching the limits of computer power – we need new programmers

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of people with real skills in C working in embedded. It might even be easier to find C than C++ developers.

I challenge you to find a C “boot camp.” In fact doesn’t this point to a gap in the marketplace? Where are my “IOT ALL THE THINGS / 5G / Edge” bootcamps? Where are the “leetcode” challenges that talk about proper sampling rates for an 8-bit A/D converter, or implementing a closed loop PID in a 16-bit architecture? I suspect that that’s what the Grandparent comment is commenting on — there’s so much talking about the…

The C "boot camp" is called K&R (plus a plain Linux development environment). Plenty of devs have gotten started with just that, and in around the same time.

Re: We’re approaching the limits of computer power – we need new programmers

#213
post #122

Functional programming is something to watch and learn. It can help take advantage of multi-core single machines and distributed computing alike because it is thread safe due to using immutable variables and the mathematics behind pure functions. Compared to OOP, no locking, concurrency, or race conditions to worry about if used correctly.

Functional program helps immensely, but I don't think you are describing it quite right. You cannot to distributed systems without concurrency. Even if you don't have low level synchronization failures, you still need to watch out for determinism. Fortunately we have the math for that (usually order theory). I make this point as someone whose job is Haskell. Too many people expect awesome magic sauce and basically wr…

Even coding in Erlang/Elixir (inside the BEAM VM in general) where parallelism/concurrency is a 99% solved problem and works as you expect, people still manage to fuck it up with trying their damnest to invent mutable data structures, or inadvertently make 1000 tasks wait on one green thread (when they absolutely shouldn't and there are much better solutions).

It's quite comical and sad to watch at the same time.

I agree with the article's title: we really need a new breed of programmers.

Re: We’re approaching the limits of computer power – we need new programmers

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I challenge you to find a C “boot camp.” In fact doesn’t this point to a gap in the marketplace? Where are my “IOT ALL THE THINGS / 5G / Edge” bootcamps? Where are the “leetcode” challenges that talk about proper sampling rates for an 8-bit A/D converter, or implementing a closed loop PID in a 16-bit architecture? I suspect that that’s what the Grandparent comment is commenting on — there’s so much talking about the…

> I challenge you to find a C “boot camp.” C isn't a language that lends itself to bootcamp-stye learning. With Javascript, you can get something on-screen in a few minutes, and even if you make mistakes, you will normally see something . It's a more forgiving environment. With C, a small error prevents compilation at all, and it's going to be a relatively long time before you're ready to progress past the "printing…

A bootcamp is about gathering the minimum knowledge necessary to be productive as quickly as possible.

...and that nicely sums up the problem with software today.

Re: We’re approaching the limits of computer power – we need new programmers

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I challenge you to find a C “boot camp.” In fact doesn’t this point to a gap in the marketplace? Where are my “IOT ALL THE THINGS / 5G / Edge” bootcamps? Where are the “leetcode” challenges that talk about proper sampling rates for an 8-bit A/D converter, or implementing a closed loop PID in a 16-bit architecture? I suspect that that’s what the Grandparent comment is commenting on — there’s so much talking about the…

The C "boot camp" is called K&R (plus a plain Linux development environment). Plenty of devs have gotten started with just that, and in around the same time.

The problem with K&R is that is useless for building actual, working C applications. Even being up to date with the language's specs means very little as getting every different library up and running in each platform is a fairly high barrier, much more so than other platforms.

Re: We’re approaching the limits of computer power – we need new programmers

#216
post #211
post #129

There’s also the environmental factor nobody takes into account. Less CPU cycles means less emissions. When a piece of software is used by millions or even billions it must be significant.

There is actually a paper about this topic: "Energy Efficiency across Programming Languages"

Thanks I'll check it out!

Re: We’re approaching the limits of computer power – we need new programmers

#217
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but web?

Google is a web company ( at least in their heads ) and Dart was supposed to replace Javascript ( lol ), they used GWT for their projects since forever and now many use Dart and Angular - Adsense for sure and many other very important products for them ( $$$ ) so it's important they capture the Web side of things with Flutter because Google and their PMs and VPs are the most important clients in order to ensure the f…

Good point.

Honestly I seriously doubt Flutter will ever be popular for web. It recreates everything already included in browsers like DOM, CSS, text editing, etc. There is already too much bloat with modern JS apps.

Re: We’re approaching the limits of computer power – we need new programmers

#218
post #157
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It often seems the main target is the web, then Electron steps in to provide an “app”. Slack really comes to mind here.

For that I already have a browser installed.

A browser can’t make arbitrary network calls or arbitrarily read from the local file system. This is trivial in electron.

Re: We’re approaching the limits of computer power – we need new programmers

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The C "boot camp" is called K&R (plus a plain Linux development environment). Plenty of devs have gotten started with just that, and in around the same time.

The problem with K&R is that is useless for building actual, working C applications. Even being up to date with the language's specs means very little as getting every different library up and running in each platform is a fairly high barrier, much more so than other platforms.

The companion Kernighan and Pike is very good on building full Unix command line utilities. But yes, the platform learning process of getting to hello world can be remarkably hard.

Re: We’re approaching the limits of computer power – we need new programmers

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I challenge you to find a C “boot camp.” C isn't a language that lends itself to bootcamp-stye learning. With Javascript, you can get something on-screen in a few minutes, and even if you make mistakes, you will normally see something . It's a more forgiving environment. With C, a small error prevents compilation at all, and it's going to be a relatively long time before you're ready to progress past the "printing…

A bootcamp is about gathering the minimum knowledge necessary to be productive as quickly as possible. ...and that nicely sums up the problem with software today.

That's a sunny view of the software of yesteryear.
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