Shopify CEO says long hours aren't necessary for success • Hacker News Board

Re: Shopify CEO says long hours aren't necessary for success

#211

Post by MattConfluence » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 1:17 AM UTC

samwestdev wrote: post #209

> For creative work, you can't cheat. My believe is that there are 5 creative hours in everyone's day. All I ask of people at Shopify is that 4 of those are channeled into the company. He's practically asking to put company success before personal growth. That's incredibly selfish if you ask me.

That's not how I read it.

Some others, with job titles similar to him, speak of "giving 110%" and how their employees are so dedicated to the company, they gladly take on overtime and crunch and whatnot. This seems refreshingly honest to me in comparison.

Using his math, there's 35 creative hours per person per week; assuming a 5-day work week, he's _paying_ for 20 of those and leaving 15 for personal growth. Sure, some might prefer a different ratio, but at least he's acknowledging that there needs to be a balance.

Re: Shopify CEO says long hours aren't necessary for success

#212

Post by trianglem » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 1:17 AM UTC

bwb wrote: post #28

I don't believe anyone really does 80 hours. I just don't think it is possible and I don't think you can call sitting at a desk doing nothing "work". I've done 60 hours during intense periods just fine... but it was only effective because of the nature of the work I was doing at the time. And, I usually took a break down the road to compensate. In no way was it even 50% creative work. 4 to 6 creative hours seems righ…

I’ve literally worked for 85-95 hours over the last 15 days with no days off except Christmas Day at 12-14 hours per day.

Re: Shopify CEO says long hours aren't necessary for success

#213

Post by x2f10 » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 1:32 AM UTC

originalbryan2 wrote: post #210

Consultant32452 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think some of the people who are making claims of really long hours are using amphetamines or other performance enhancing drugs.

In my 20s I worked 80-90 hours for ... 4-6 months. It was day job, then side hustle software that I was very excited about. Now in my late 30s with kids, yeesh. Honestly it's impossible to get 40 hours in some weeks. Edit: no drug use

Is it impossible even with effort or you no longer feel the effort is required and/or necessary?

Re: Shopify CEO says long hours aren't necessary for success

#214

Post by ilrwbwrkhv » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 2:44 AM UTC

dvt wrote: post #26

What's unfortunate is that on the other side of the coin, "rockstar CEOs" like Elon Musk claim they sleep 4 hours a night and work 90 hour weeks. I think Musk does this mostly for publicity/image reasons and not that it's actually true, but you've got plenty of wantapreneurs parroting this (imo) unhealthy lifestyle.

He runs three companies which are changing the future of humanity though. Not some ecommerce gig. He is an outlier.

Re: Shopify CEO says long hours aren't necessary for success

#215

Post by xiphias2 » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 2:49 AM UTC

system16 wrote: post #136

dvt wrote: post #26

What's unfortunate is that on the other side of the coin, "rockstar CEOs" like Elon Musk claim they sleep 4 hours a night and work 90 hour weeks. I think Musk does this mostly for publicity/image reasons and not that it's actually true, but you've got plenty of wantapreneurs parroting this (imo) unhealthy lifestyle.

With the inordinate amount of time Musk spends on Twitter, I'm gonna go ahead and assume most of those 90 hours are not productive.

Most people (and competitors) underappreciate how well Elon manages requirements over Twitter.

If you want to know why he selected the features for the Cybertruck, go back 1 year when he asked the desired features on Twitter. It's crazy how many of those small looking features (like a bed for normal sized / tall people, lighting in the back) were included in all models.

Re: Shopify CEO says long hours aren't necessary for success

#216

Post by wesleywt » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 3:12 AM UTC

Working long hours is for the poor who need to make the rent. Not for successful.

Re: Shopify CEO says long hours aren't necessary for success

#217

Post by wbronitsky » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 4:26 AM UTC

mikeg8 wrote: post #58

dvt wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... he is the most impressive CEO in this generation, perhaps in history How anyone can say this with a straight face blows my mind when even in the tech vertical he has some serious competition (are we forgetting about Jeff Bezos, Larry Page, Sergey Brin, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, etc.), let alone actual historical figures like Henry Ford, John Rockefeller, Cornelius Vanderbilt, etc.

>How anyone can say this with a straight face blows my mind Elon is the only person to ever start four 1bn+ companies (paypal, tesla, SpaceX, Solarcity). He has/is driving innovation across multiple industries on a time scale that I don't think any of the people you mentioned can really touch, not to mention hyperloop and the Boring Company. Its not even debatable IMO.

It is absolutely debatable. Moreover, why would you post something on a public forum like this that wasn’t debatable? This rhetoric is a bit lazy and baity.

Re: Shopify CEO says long hours aren't necessary for success

#218

Post by eyeball » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 4:29 AM UTC

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #144

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't count dinner as work, that was just my whole schedule.

Do you feel as a society that we should condone working beyond dinner like like? As I read your schedule, I think, “if this couldn’t be handled between 9-5, with a no-work break for lunch, then something is wrong here and effective decisions aren’t being made.” I say this as someone with a similar job, the machine learning manager with several teams reporting to me, budgets in the tens of millions per year, staffing…

Can you please take my VP’s job?

I manage a team of 10 data analysts. My life has turned into a hell of meetings 8-5, with any gaps dedicated to 1-1s or meeting with my team. Then I do email and some of my own coding on weekends. 60 - 75 hrs per week is normal now.

Complained to my execs about it and they just gave me a retention bonus but no help.

I love my job but am going to have to quit because of this.

Re: Shopify CEO says long hours aren't necessary for success

#219

Post by fooker » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 4:37 AM UTC

jcims wrote: post #98

mindblownlazy wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep seeing this but why do non-creatives count dinner, commuting and exercise as work? (You don't do all these but you put dinner there) As a creative I find it hard to justify that, sure I did talk about work during lunch with a coworker or an ex coworker or friend but damn I was just enjoying my pork chops, that's not work!!!

Why do we culturally accept the distinction 'creatives' and 'non-creatives'. It's gross.

Why do we "culturally accept" any distinction?

Also, the idea of "culturally not accepting" something seems gross. It's the antithesis of diversity.

Re: Shopify CEO says long hours aren't necessary for success

#220

Post by golergka » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 6:13 AM UTC

bwb wrote: post #28

I don't believe anyone really does 80 hours. I just don't think it is possible and I don't think you can call sitting at a desk doing nothing "work". I've done 60 hours during intense periods just fine... but it was only effective because of the nature of the work I was doing at the time. And, I usually took a break down the road to compensate. In no way was it even 50% creative work. 4 to 6 creative hours seems righ…

I just took a single 29-hour workday, right before a major deadline. And coming up to that, didn't have a single off day whole December, typically working from 2pm to 4am. So yeah, it's definitely possible, but really not good for anyone in the long run.