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Help me ask why you didn't just

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Re: Help me ask why you didn't just

#211
post #176

My take from personal experience: Removing the "just" obviously makes it less condescending: => Why didn't you use sshd? Removing the "you" could make it less personal: => Why was sshd not used here? Removing the past-tense makes it more forward looking (the past can't be changed, but people often defend their past decisions especially because they are unchangeable, the future however is less threatening): => Could s…

Did you (try|consider) sshd?

"Yes, it wasn't suitable because..."

"No?" Ah ok, I think it'd work really well here because...

Direct, no assumptions, no trick questions, no toes trodden on.

Re: Help me ask why you didn't just

#212
post #176

My take from personal experience: Removing the "just" obviously makes it less condescending: => Why didn't you use sshd? Removing the "you" could make it less personal: => Why was sshd not used here? Removing the past-tense makes it more forward looking (the past can't be changed, but people often defend their past decisions especially because they are unchangeable, the future however is less threatening): => Could s…

Favoriting your comment here. You just gave 2 "learn within 1 minute social skills" lessons within one HN comment. There's a lot to unpack here. 1. Your way of analyzing on how it could be less threatening 2. The final answer to it being less threatening 3. Praise in public, criticize in private I'm normally not a fan of simple sentences, but the sentence of (3) is one I'll keep in mind when I'll start my career. Tha…

I find that 3 can become a mental down spiral for the carer.

Praise anywhere, criticise anyware, make sure to do it sometimes in public. Otherwise, it becomes a game of fools, which at scale may lead us all to insanity.

Re: Help me ask why you didn't just

#213
just assume they considered your suggestion and ask as if they did and must indeed have a reason why it didn't work:

"so what was the issue with using sshd?"

you're assuming competence, and if they say "oh I never thought of that" then you can prompt them to consider it - "might be worth a shot" or something like that. Comes across less accusative I think.

Re: Help me ask why you didn't just

#214
Some programmers will ask you "why didn't you just" questions about something you've worked on for weeks, months or years, not because they think they're smarter than you, but because they never think about anything for weeks, months or years.

Re: Help me ask why you didn't just

#215

just assume they considered your suggestion and ask as if they did and must indeed have a reason why it didn't work: "so what was the issue with using sshd?" you're assuming competence, and if they say "oh I never thought of that" then you can prompt them to consider it - "might be worth a shot" or something like that. Comes across less accusative I think.

Yes I agree. A 'what is the problem with using sshd?' or similar seems valid to me. It gives them a way to actually explain if there is a problem and if not, oh that might work.

Re: Help me ask why you didn't just

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Favoriting your comment here. You just gave 2 "learn within 1 minute social skills" lessons within one HN comment. There's a lot to unpack here. 1. Your way of analyzing on how it could be less threatening 2. The final answer to it being less threatening 3. Praise in public, criticize in private I'm normally not a fan of simple sentences, but the sentence of (3) is one I'll keep in mind when I'll start my career. Tha…

I find that 3 can become a mental down spiral for the carer. Praise anywhere, criticise anyware, make sure to do it sometimes in public. Otherwise, it becomes a game of fools, which at scale may lead us all to insanity.

Care to elaborate? I don't understand why it's a "game of fools" or how it would lead to insanity.

Honest question.

Re: Help me ask why you didn't just

#217
If it's that sensitive, I'd probably start by spending extra time, trying to figure it out without asking.

If it's a code review, then it's expected that hard questions be asked. I'd remove the "just," and watch my intonation.

Chances are better than even, that it ain't that important, and not worth my extra time.

If the engineer isn't that good, it will show itself in more obvious ways, sooner or later.

I've come to value team cohesiveness. When you have a team of high-functioning, self-confident, highly-intelligent, motivated people, it won't be a smooth ride. Passions abound, and people will disagree; sometimes vehemently.

Respect and cohesiveness are EARNED. If someone knows that I respect them, then I can be a real jerk, and it won't damage our relationship (as long as it isn't chronic).

I managed just such a team for a long time. When we finally disbanded, the engineer with the least seniority had ten years.

The current tech industry is hyper-competitive. Everyone is competing against everyone else. It's not enough to be "as good as" someone else. We have to be BETTER than everyone else.

When the average stay at a corporation is 24 months, people don't get that invested in a team. They are there for a fairly quick job. In and out. Don't make eye contact. Don't lower your shields.

One of the important things about working in a team, is that other members of the team watch how we treat others. If I'm mean to Joe, then Bob will assume that I'm mean; even if I'm right, and Joe was in error. The emotional impact will impart the lesson; not logic. He won't remember Joe as wrong; just me, as mean.

There is no solution that can be achieved by a simple change in wording.

But that's just me, and my experience. YMMV.

Re: Help me ask why you didn't just

#218
post #176

My take from personal experience: Removing the "just" obviously makes it less condescending: => Why didn't you use sshd? Removing the "you" could make it less personal: => Why was sshd not used here? Removing the past-tense makes it more forward looking (the past can't be changed, but people often defend their past decisions especially because they are unchangeable, the future however is less threatening): => Could s…

Favoriting your comment here. You just gave 2 "learn within 1 minute social skills" lessons within one HN comment. There's a lot to unpack here. 1. Your way of analyzing on how it could be less threatening 2. The final answer to it being less threatening 3. Praise in public, criticize in private I'm normally not a fan of simple sentences, but the sentence of (3) is one I'll keep in mind when I'll start my career. Tha…

    Praise in public, criticize in private
In my (considerable) experience of working in large organisation (private and public), whether this works or not depends strongly on the power differential between praiser/criticiser and praisee/criticisee. Basically this is the most likely outcome:

- Powerless praises publicly and criticises privately: criticism will be ignored, praise will be milked.

- Powerless praises privately and criticises publicly: if played right, this is working, since the powerful cannot brush aside the criticism, but this is likely to lead to retaliation!

A way of making public criticism more digestible is to make it very constructive: "You are wrong because XYZ, I recommend ABC instead because ". Ideally the align with the organisation's goals, e.g. "ABC is clearly in the interest of our shareholders / voters / students / environment because .

Make of this what you will.

Re: Help me ask why you didn't just

#220
I'm not sure on what context you have all these meetings but maybe one radical thought it this: you're having these issues because maybe your updates with these folks are at a very abstract level. Coming from an academic background, the reason for such an interaction would be the inability to comprehend the complexities of the problem due to the level of abstraction it's being presented at. If you lower the level of abstraction, you might have fewer such cases. Though it's doesn't entirely answer your question, it might help you with your conundrum.
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