Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis • Hacker News Board

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#211

Post by morsch » Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 9:26 AM UTC

larnmar wrote: post #199

supernova87a wrote: post #164

I echo the point that this is merely a symptom of SF's inability to be a little bit more hardnosed and solve its problems. As an example: I called 311/911 to report a trio of homeless guys, operating a bike chop shop in broad daylight on a Saturday in downtown (and blocking the sidewalk, and creating piles of junk). The operator said that she would report this to the "neighborhood outreach / management team" or somet…

This. And yet, in a sort of collective Gell-Mann amnesia, I’m pretty sure that tomorrow I’ll load up HN, there’ll be an article on prisons, and people will be upvoted for solemnly intoning how terrible it is that so many Americans are in prison, with dissenters greyed out and soon shadowbanned. So let me take this opportunity to say: there are far too few Anericans in prison. The number should be much higher. Prison…

But you already imprison more people (per capita) than most if not all other rich countries. Why do you have so much crime in the first place? It seems to me like identifying those issues will serve as a first step towards a long term solution.

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#212

Post by Gibbon1 » Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 9:52 AM UTC

redis_mlc wrote: post #200

mikevp wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But before Prop 13, people on fixed incomes were getting taxed out of their paid-off homes they'd lived in for decades.

Downsizing as you get older is a normal thing in the other 49 states. Also, Prop 13 inexplicably applies to commercial real estate, and inherited property.

Nothing inexplicable about the application to commercial real estate. The major backers of the law were corporate interests.

Also the inherited property bit was a separate amendment. And there is no limit either.

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#213

Post by Cougher » Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 11:10 AM UTC

larnmar wrote: post #199

supernova87a wrote: post #164

I echo the point that this is merely a symptom of SF's inability to be a little bit more hardnosed and solve its problems. As an example: I called 311/911 to report a trio of homeless guys, operating a bike chop shop in broad daylight on a Saturday in downtown (and blocking the sidewalk, and creating piles of junk). The operator said that she would report this to the "neighborhood outreach / management team" or somet…

This. And yet, in a sort of collective Gell-Mann amnesia, I’m pretty sure that tomorrow I’ll load up HN, there’ll be an article on prisons, and people will be upvoted for solemnly intoning how terrible it is that so many Americans are in prison, with dissenters greyed out and soon shadowbanned. So let me take this opportunity to say: there are far too few Anericans in prison. The number should be much higher. Prison…

"So let me take this opportunity to say: there are far too few Anericans in prison. The number should be much higher. Prison sentences should be mandatory, they should be long, and they should be severe."

This has GOT to be a troll.

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#214

Post by LoSboccacc » Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 11:11 AM UTC

gojomo wrote: post #207

LoSboccacc wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol no first of all you have to control prey population because pests will balloon with the increased safety and consume resources, strangling the prey population. secondly if you can't control the whole area Predator population will follow the pest increase, often resulting in larger problems or an out of control spiral of environmental issues you don't have to go back to pre scientific anecdotes like the stories ar…

I still can't follow what you meant by the "last time we culled cats". Was that referring to some action by Australians? (Are they the "we"?) Is there a canonical reference to how extensive this "cull" was? Which "prey" have to be controlled, or else which "pests" will balloon? Is the capitalization of 'Predator' significant, indicating some sort of sovereignty on a scale matching that of your only other capitalized…

> Australians? (Are they the "we"?)

I also linked a uk study, but this works the same everywhere they tried, including wolves in italy etc

> Which "prey" have to be controlled, or else which "pests" will balloon?

the food chain sits at an equilibrium that's under dampened. the population of opportunistic/scavenger will grow sharply going over capacity. that will cause harm to animals down the food chain (i.e. attack to bird nests) and will cause immigration of nearby predator population, which will again be underdampenend and will grow over capacity.

heck I even linked a paper explaining this, there's plenty references around too.

> Predator

now you're just being an hardass. it was autocorrect.

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#215

Post by 11235813213455 » Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 11:12 AM UTC

triceratops wrote: post #89

11235813213455 wrote: post #82

The problem is not so much their poop, it's the pets themselves. For example, in USA, 25% of the meat production is meant for pets [1], it's huge, given also that meat production is not environmental-friendly. The whole pets products industry is really large, there are maybe close to 1 billion pets worldwide. Other example, cats affect negatively ecosystems (birds, little reptiles, some important insects, ..) My prop…

"The animal parts used for pet food may include damaged carcass parts, bones, and cheek meat, and organs such as intestines, kidneys, liver, lungs, udders, spleen, and stomach tissue"[1]. These are all byproducts of the meat industry for humans. Humans don't eat any of these animal parts. Pets are doing us a favor by eating all these things that would otherwise simply be thrown away, with a great deal of pollution in…

I know that argument, but the more there are markets dependent on meat production (like pets food), the more meat production will be hard to reduce

It's like saying "I just give my throwaway to my dogs", this means you'll more or less consciously get more food because you know you need enough throwaway

Or it's also somewhat like saying, "I bought this mango at the supermarket, which came in plane, from another continent. But what am I doing wrong? if I don't buy it, it'll be discarded/wasted". Similar reasoning, the idea is to cut down the downstream demand so we're able to cut down the upstream one

> that would otherwise simply be thrown away, with a great deal of pollution involved.

That's not necessarily true, there may some efficient ways to compost/bury/recycle organic material, I don't know how precisely for this case. But compared to the amount of energy for making and transporting dog food to each final consumer? The latter is certainly more polluting

> Reduction in meat consumption has to come from humans, because we actually have a choice

Yes, right, well the vast majority people have the choice to not have pets, for those who need a companion, they can try with a plant, it's less talkative but not less sensible

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#216

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy » Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 1:52 PM UTC

larnmar wrote: post #199

supernova87a wrote: post #164

I echo the point that this is merely a symptom of SF's inability to be a little bit more hardnosed and solve its problems. As an example: I called 311/911 to report a trio of homeless guys, operating a bike chop shop in broad daylight on a Saturday in downtown (and blocking the sidewalk, and creating piles of junk). The operator said that she would report this to the "neighborhood outreach / management team" or somet…

This. And yet, in a sort of collective Gell-Mann amnesia, I’m pretty sure that tomorrow I’ll load up HN, there’ll be an article on prisons, and people will be upvoted for solemnly intoning how terrible it is that so many Americans are in prison, with dissenters greyed out and soon shadowbanned. So let me take this opportunity to say: there are far too few Anericans in prison. The number should be much higher. Prison…

I hope you get the opportunity to learn the folly of your vision first hand, without leaving a path of destroyed lives in your wake. Your vision is short sighted, ignorant of how the world works, and lacks even the most basic amounts of humanity. I am appalled to see such vitriol here. Your own words paint yourself to be of the same character as those you would thrust into prison over petty crimes.

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#217

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy » Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 1:54 PM UTC

morsch wrote: post #211

larnmar wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. And yet, in a sort of collective Gell-Mann amnesia, I’m pretty sure that tomorrow I’ll load up HN, there’ll be an article on prisons, and people will be upvoted for solemnly intoning how terrible it is that so many Americans are in prison, with dissenters greyed out and soon shadowbanned. So let me take this opportunity to say: there are far too few Anericans in prison. The number should be much higher. Prison…

But you already imprison more people (per capita) than most if not all other rich countries. Why do you have so much crime in the first place? It seems to me like identifying those issues will serve as a first step towards a long term solution.

So long as us politicians campaign money depends on them not understanding why crime is as bad as it is then crime will continue to get worse.

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#218

Post by 11235813213455 » Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 2:08 PM UTC

11235813213455 wrote: post #215

triceratops wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The animal parts used for pet food may include damaged carcass parts, bones, and cheek meat, and organs such as intestines, kidneys, liver, lungs, udders, spleen, and stomach tissue"[1]. These are all byproducts of the meat industry for humans. Humans don't eat any of these animal parts. Pets are doing us a favor by eating all these things that would otherwise simply be thrown away, with a great deal of pollution in…

I know that argument, but the more there are markets dependent on meat production (like pets food), the more meat production will be hard to reduce It's like saying "I just give my throwaway to my dogs", this means you'll more or less consciously get more food because you know you need enough throwaway Or it's also somewhat like saying, "I bought this mango at the supermarket, which came in plane, from another contin…

> [...] making and transporting dog food [...]

add to this their packaging fabrication (often in plastics), what it takes later to recycle them, their storage, all the logistics (IT, ..)

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#219

Post by wbronitsky » Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 2:38 PM UTC

larnmar wrote: post #199

supernova87a wrote: post #164

I echo the point that this is merely a symptom of SF's inability to be a little bit more hardnosed and solve its problems. As an example: I called 311/911 to report a trio of homeless guys, operating a bike chop shop in broad daylight on a Saturday in downtown (and blocking the sidewalk, and creating piles of junk). The operator said that she would report this to the "neighborhood outreach / management team" or somet…

This. And yet, in a sort of collective Gell-Mann amnesia, I’m pretty sure that tomorrow I’ll load up HN, there’ll be an article on prisons, and people will be upvoted for solemnly intoning how terrible it is that so many Americans are in prison, with dissenters greyed out and soon shadowbanned. So let me take this opportunity to say: there are far too few Anericans in prison. The number should be much higher. Prison…

Pretty rare that someone would come on Hacker News and advocate for torture. Do you have any data that shows that what you are advocating for is effective or are you arguing that public policy should focus on using sadistic practices for no reason?

Re: Trends in the San Francisco (mostly dog?) poop crisis

#220

Post by amanaplanacanal » Sat, Nov 23, 2019, 3:36 PM UTC

larnmar wrote: post #99

raxxorrax wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you had everything monitored, you still have a drug problem.

Sure, unless we also had proper punishments for drug offenders.

Or, as has been noted many times, we could just legalize the drugs and do away with this problem.