BBC News launches 'dark web' Tor mirror • Hacker News Board

Re: BBC News launches 'dark web' Tor mirror

#211

Post by steeleduncan » Thu, Oct 24, 2019, 5:49 PM UTC

xvector wrote: post #196

steeleduncan wrote: post #185

Potentially I am misunderstanding how Tor's onion routing works, but according to https://metrics.torproject.org/networksize.html there are about 6000 tor relays right now. Surely if some well funded organisation (Eve) were to install a similar number of relays itself, then it is reasonably likely that for a given user a packet would eventually travel across relays solely owned by Eve, and at that point Eve could map…

I believe this would work, and is one of the weak points of the ecosystem. I wonder what the impact of spinning up 6K relays in AWS across the globe would be like. I would say that spinning up 6K instances would be affordable for even small companies.

Yes, the cost wouldn't be prohibitive. It is not hard to see how it could be profitable for a small security company to do this and sell the information on.

Re: BBC News launches 'dark web' Tor mirror

#212

Post by cryptoz » Thu, Oct 24, 2019, 5:55 PM UTC

Izkata wrote: post #209

cryptoz wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, why not? Knowing who votes for what content, when, and in coordination with whom else seems like it would be extremely useful indeed! Aren't techniques like this already used by FBI etc on Twitter when investigating illegal content and coordination of its' dissemination? Bot networks are taken down on Twitter and other sites all the time using voting data. Social voting data is a rather sizable and useful datas…

GP said "score", so my guess is they weren't even thinking in that direction, just their posts that others voted on.

> just their posts that others voted on

But you can't calculate the 'score' without knowing who those people are, when they voted, and what else they voted on too. The score is a summary generated from lots of information. It's not just some number that carries no value.

Re: BBC News launches 'dark web' Tor mirror

#213

Post by dang » Thu, Oct 24, 2019, 5:59 PM UTC

cryptoz wrote: post #164

ktm5j wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has read access to HN.. there are no private messages that I'm aware of, anyone can search this site using google

HN contains a lot of information that isn't visible on the public web. Ban lists, point counts, user access history, etc. > Everyone has read access to HN No, not to their databases as OP is discussing. It would be definitely a crime if any of us had that info as it would imply we broke in and stole it - but OP is suggesting that they assume NSA already has it (a potentially paranoid but also reasonably fair thing to…

> isn't Thiel on the board of HN/YC

He is not.

Re: BBC News launches 'dark web' Tor mirror

#214

Post by hombre_fatal » Thu, Oct 24, 2019, 6:01 PM UTC

jandrese wrote: post #180

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that bad, per se ? In practice some sites drop Tor connections, and localisations come through wrong, but that doesn't seem to be why you said "no".

Hope you like solving CAPCHAs, because you're going to be doing a lot of that. And you can forget about searching with Google. Also you'll learn to hate Cloudflare as they straight up block you from so many websites. And don't even think about trying to sign up for some free service like an email account or game account. Your account will be flagged before you finish thinking up your username.

> Also you'll learn to hate Cloudflare as they straight up block you from so many websites.

Well, it's the websites using Cloudflare, not Cloudflare doing it for fun. You're better served hating other Tor users for ruining nice things for you.

But you're lucky if a service even allows Tor. I straight up block it for some of my applications since it's 99.99% abuse.

Re: BBC News launches 'dark web' Tor mirror

#215

Post by SkyBelow » Thu, Oct 24, 2019, 6:17 PM UTC

pmarreck wrote: post #184

class4behavior wrote: post #51

Since no one posted that, yet: Tor relies on the size the of its network to counteract blocks, prevent take overs, and naturally ensure stability as well as performance. You can either donate to various groups running Tor servers, the developers, or take part on your own. https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Tor https://www.torservers.net/ https://www.dfri.se/donera/ https://nos-oignons.net/ https://donate.torproject.org…

How do I know that my computers won’t be used to traffic child porn, if I donate a server and some bandwidth?

You can't.

It creates an interesting moral problem. If people who view such material are in the wrong because they support the harm it causes, then are not people who support Tor in general also guilty of the same? Yes, they have more noble reasons for doing so, but do the ends justify the means, especially when dealing with such a topic?

Re: BBC News launches 'dark web' Tor mirror

#216

Post by SlowRobotAhead » Thu, Oct 24, 2019, 6:30 PM UTC

_Understated_ wrote: post #15

toby- wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people understand Tor to be the 'dark web', so I wouldn't call it clickbait. Hell, it is the dark web. It's you who's wrongly associating it with paedophilia and drugs (both amply available on the 'clearnet') IMO, which does quite a disservice to attempts to promote Tor to the newly privacy-conscious. 'Dark' means hidden, not 'evil'.

Straight away in the article they spell it out and make the link between Tor and the dark web: > The Tor browser is privacy-focused software used to access the dark web Yes it is. But that's the worst thing it's used for. It's like saying 12-gauge shotguns are used for bank robberies... Ok, I'm stretching the point but it's needlessly putting the association of privacy focused browsing using Tor with the nasty shit t…

>It's like saying 12-gauge shotguns are used for bank robberies...

I think I've seen the exact BBC article ;)

Re: BBC News launches 'dark web' Tor mirror

#217

Post by noident » Thu, Oct 24, 2019, 6:33 PM UTC

xvector wrote: post #196

steeleduncan wrote: post #185

Potentially I am misunderstanding how Tor's onion routing works, but according to https://metrics.torproject.org/networksize.html there are about 6000 tor relays right now. Surely if some well funded organisation (Eve) were to install a similar number of relays itself, then it is reasonably likely that for a given user a packet would eventually travel across relays solely owned by Eve, and at that point Eve could map…

I believe this would work, and is one of the weak points of the ecosystem. I wonder what the impact of spinning up 6K relays in AWS across the globe would be like. I would say that spinning up 6K instances would be affordable for even small companies.

You can't just spin up 6k new relays and take over the Tor network without somebody noticing. The network is actively monitored for sybil attacks, and it takes 2+ weeks before a new node is "trusted" with significant traffic, giving network monitors plenty of time to blacklist you.

What's going to kill Tor is a global passive adversary, meaning someone with perfect visibility of all traffic going in and out of Tor nodes by tapping network infrastructure and correlating at the endpoints. I'm sure the NSA is working on this. They couldn't do it in 2013, but what could they have accomplished in the 6 years since the Snowden leaks?

It's also possible to use machine learning to "fingerprint" encrypted blobs entering guard nodes and correlate them with websites (even onion services!), although it gets less feasible as the set of potential websites increases.

Re: BBC News launches 'dark web' Tor mirror

#218

Post by DuskStar » Thu, Oct 24, 2019, 6:33 PM UTC

cnThrowaway wrote: post #198

LinuxBender wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. Every time a new version / protocol is released, it works for a little while and then they adapt their firewall to block it.

Here is my idea to fight The Great Firewall: Embed banned content in "normal" https websites like this one. The content can either be static like mirrors of banned sites (wikipedia, BBC and the tor website). It would be at secret locations. The site should randomly pick a few of it's Chinese users. When they visit public pages, they will be redirected to the secret locations. (With a welcome message). It will appeal…

I think most Chinese - even apolitical Chinese - will think it's a government-inserted purity test, and immediately leave.

If it becomes successful, then China will make that fear real, and start running the same thing themselves.

Re: BBC News launches 'dark web' Tor mirror

#219

Post by SmellyGeekBoy » Thu, Oct 24, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

ArchieLeach wrote: post #77

joosters wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give a recent example of a significant protest that lacks a BBC news story?

I haven't said that they are not reported. It's the relative importance given that is obvious. 150+ people have died in Iraq over the last month during wide scale protests. There is an article on this on the BBC's website. On the other hand, there is almost live coverage with embedded journalists as headline news every time a protester throws something at the HK police, or every time the HK police throws a teargas ca…

Iraq is not a former British colony, so unfortunately it's of limited interest to British people.

Re: BBC News launches 'dark web' Tor mirror

#220

Post by AnthonyMouse » Thu, Oct 24, 2019, 7:00 PM UTC

SkyBelow wrote: post #215

pmarreck wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do I know that my computers won’t be used to traffic child porn, if I donate a server and some bandwidth?

You can't. It creates an interesting moral problem. If people who view such material are in the wrong because they support the harm it causes, then are not people who support Tor in general also guilty of the same? Yes, they have more noble reasons for doing so, but do the ends justify the means, especially when dealing with such a topic?

> If people who view such material are in the wrong because they support the harm it causes, then are not people who support Tor in general also guilty of the same?

How is this any different than FedEx or USPS? They don't read your mail to see what it is. To a near certainty at least some of what they deliver contains child pornography.

And what about roads? I bet child pornographers sometimes use roads for child pornography related purposes. Does that mean we're all complicit as taxpayers? Or maybe it's that the child pornographers are the guilty parties and common carriers are not the police.