Collapse OS • Hacker News Board

Re: Collapse OS

#211

Post by AlEinstein » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 1:04 AM UTC

carapace wrote: post #32

Give me a good slide rule and a manual of practical mathematics, eh? As for scavenged parts, you're going to need a warehouse of manuals and datasheets, eh? Depending on the details of your post-apocalyptic scenario planning, simple automation driven by relays or clockwork logic will be more likely than e.g. scavenged microcontrollers. I applaud the spirit of the project though: I don't want to live on Gilligan's Isl…

> As for scavenged parts, you're going to need a warehouse of manuals and datasheets, eh?

You're right! As a thought experiment, let's say I download CollapseOS and then switch off my internet.

I have in my house a normal complement of electronic devices. I have a soldering iron, some wire etc. I assume if I start taking things apart I'll find some Z80s. Those Z80s will be living on boards with clock chips and memory etc. Where do I even start?

Re: Collapse OS

#212

Post by christophilus » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 1:12 AM UTC

9HZZRfNlpR wrote: post #207

d0gsg0w00f wrote: post #206

Best thing you and I can do to prevent climate change is to not have kids.

This suggestion is stupid as suggesting killing yourself. Giving offsprings, taking care of them and enjoying them growing up is the reason to live first place.

The way I look at it is: such thinking will only take a generation to die off.

Re: Collapse OS

#213

Post by GeorgeTirebiter » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 1:15 AM UTC

Why not a Rad Hard 8086 https://www.renesas.com/in/en/products/space-harsh-environme... or maybe a Rad Hard RCA CPD1802 https://www.renesas.com/in/en/products/space-harsh-environme... ? Those might survive a hydrogen bomb if not too close.

I've thought about this a little, and I think rebooting vacuum tube technology from scratch is possible more easily. Not trivial, but possible. Once you get reliable triodes, you're on your way.

Re: Collapse OS

#214

Post by LargoLasskhyfv » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 1:18 AM UTC

hyperion2010 wrote: post #124

Like other in this thread I have been thinking about this problem on and off for a while. I think that many of the comments stating that the Z80 is probably not the best choice are right (I know nothing about the Z80) and would like to extend some of their thinking. The primary design requirement for a stand alone computer system in a post-* world is simplicity, maintainability, and debugability. It must be possible…

What about Setun, a soviet ternary computer like in

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setun

[2] https://web.archive.org/web/20080207064711/http://sovietcomp...

[3] http://www.computer-museum.ru/english/setun.htm

It is a stack machine, it has somthing like FORTH.

In which you can implement anything else, if you absolutely have to. Like some have done with another stack oriented system here:

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POP-11

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poplog

[6] http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/projects/poplog/freepoplog...

And then have some cybernetic monks preach the advantages of something like TRON

[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRON_project

applied to all of the above.

Re: Collapse OS

#215

Post by zamadatix » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 1:27 AM UTC

vfclists wrote: post #187

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #117

I think some sort or retro low-performance OS should start with NeXTSTEP. Ryzen processors have 80MB of L3 cache! IIRC that may have been twice what was needed to run the colorized versions of NeXT. A lot of "man the old days were all we needed" recollections of Windows and DOS forget how crappy those OSes were... But NeXT? That was basically a modern OS, with a bit less anti-aliasing. XWindow systems STILL look horr…

Isn't that what Haiku OS is doing?

Haiku targets BeOS compatibility.

Re: Collapse OS

#216

Post by cpuguy83 » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 1:48 AM UTC

JimmyAustin wrote: post #163

rabidrat wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would we get at the information if we don't have the technology to launch a rocket/spaceship to retrieve it?

The satellites orbit would naturally decay to the point of reentry. I'm not sure of the engineering, but it might be possible to do a controlled descent to a specific place for survivors to rendezvous with.

Thrusters with some sort of controlled decent if it doesn't receive a signal in some period of time?

Re: Collapse OS

#217

Post by aquabeagle » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 1:57 AM UTC

But if someone has a hint about useful prior art, please let me know.

http://fuzix.org/ - lots of 8-bit targets, z80 included

http://cowlark.com/cpmish/index.html - has a vi-like editor, assembler, and is cp/m compatible so it can run lots of old cp/m software like various compilers

Re: Collapse OS

#218

Post by chowells » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 1:58 AM UTC

9HZZRfNlpR wrote: post #207

d0gsg0w00f wrote: post #206

Best thing you and I can do to prevent climate change is to not have kids.

This suggestion is stupid as suggesting killing yourself. Giving offsprings, taking care of them and enjoying them growing up is the reason to live first place.

That's an incredibly insulting and myopic viewpoint.

Re: Collapse OS

#219

Post by magicalhippo » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 2:00 AM UTC

SwellJoe wrote: post #26

I've been sort of half-assed working on a novel about a post-tech future (100+ years after apocalypse), where a handful of people retained some technology by virtue of having stored information about it in a manner that survived and a tradition of scavenging and trading and a sort of religion based on maintaining it in a working state. So, this is a fun read and thought experiment, even if an 8-bit computer is probab…

Since the transistors are used as switches, one can use electromechanical one, aka relays.

There's a nice project page of one here[1], including an in-depth video about it here[2]. There's a collection of other relay computers here[3].

[1]: http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~harry/Relay/

[2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsp2JntuZ3c

[3]: https://github.com/Dovgalyuk/Relay/wiki

Re: Collapse OS

#220

Post by daveslash » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 2:04 AM UTC

JimmyAustin wrote: post #163

rabidrat wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would we get at the information if we don't have the technology to launch a rocket/spaceship to retrieve it?

The satellites orbit would naturally decay to the point of reentry. I'm not sure of the engineering, but it might be possible to do a controlled descent to a specific place for survivors to rendezvous with.

I could see that causing a huge poo-storm. If our supply chains collapse and all this knowledge is lost... but, we know when and where the knowledge will be returned to the Earth.... then that location is going to be ground zero for a lot of turmoil. Everyone will know that whoever gets that returned knowledge will have dominion.