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Why doesn’t anyone weep for Docker?

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Re: Why doesn’t anyone weep for Docker?

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I wanted to bring production down I'd just rm -rf / the database machines instead of using half-measures like that.

I'm just saying you don't need fancy CI-de-jour tech for a home project. If you're on the Atlassian stack Bamboo does pretty solid deployment/test/rollback. With a proper staging and QA environment even a large corp doesn't need much more than git.

I've never used Bamboo, so maybe that's the solution, but I disagree with your comment otherwise. No one should ever need to SSH to the servers to deploy things, and I would prefer to keep the hand-rolling to a minimum. Is there an OSS solution that will take care of that? Maybe Nomad would work.

Re: Why doesn’t anyone weep for Docker?

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Illumos and friends are effectively dead, except as hobbies for enthusiasts. Sun Microsystems, now Oracle, didn't like the reception Open Solaris got so they packed up their source code and went home. Which is really a shame. All 'True' Unixes are just closed source versions of what originally were open source operating systems. By taking copyright seriously and having the misconception that there is intrinsic value…

FreeBSD is a 'True' Unix and it is as open as they come.

From a trademarking stance, the only 'True" unixes are those that pay to get certified by Single UNIX specification. Of those, two are commercial Linux distributions, and the rest (including macOS) are proprietary unix operating systems

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_UNIX_Specification#Curr...

Re: Why doesn’t anyone weep for Docker?

#213
post #153

There's this prevalent false position that Kubernetes is successful because of Google. Yeah, Kubernetes initially learned a ton because of Borg and Google's deep investment into containers dating back a very long time. But, arguably, Kubernetes is successful because Google Let It Go. Its a true open source project, with governance by a wide number of industry advocates, underneath the Linux Foundation. By comparison,…

Parenthetically, Linux being an open source reincarnation of Solaris seems also an example, no?

Linux is a more-open and more-pragmatic reincarnation of what MINIX was in 1991, when you couldn't redistribute MINIX source code but could only get it by buying Tanenbaum's book, and MINIX was high-church microkernel design with performance problems that Torvalds got sick of.

MINIX has been BSD licensed since 2000, BTW.

Re: Why doesn’t anyone weep for Docker?

#215
post #71
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have they solved the high CPU usage problem while it is running (even when no containers are inside)? I don't like my laptop hot, so never could make a switch.

They haven't. As an example of where this lack of efficiency comes from, recently I've fixed an issue during which I've discovered that the Etcd component of k8s uses periodic (10 sec) liveness checking, where for every check (launching of the etcdctl client), the `runc` binary (from container.d) is executed 3 (three) times. You can imagine this probably just scratches the surface.

Ugh! Was the fix committed upstream?

Re: Why doesn’t anyone weep for Docker?

#216

Maybe this isn't quite the perspective the article's taking—but damn near no one visibly wept for LXC when Docker stomped all over it in terms of “what people think containers just Are”. And now the news asks why I don't weep for them? Live by the stomp, die by the stomp.

LXD is fine. You can run K8s on it.

Re: Why doesn’t anyone weep for Docker?

#217

My experience agrees with this. I'm a huge fan of Docker, I've actively taken part since the early days, attending meetups and using it actively day to day. Unfortunately, when I brought several issues to GitHub, or +1'd other people's issues that were affecting the usability within our company, the attitude was very much "f* you and your problems" because Docker want things to be one way and that's how it'll be. The…

I maintain a couple of docker network plugins. One day Docker devs decided that they would bundle an internal DNS resolver inside the docker daemon and take over the resolv.conf in every container. But here's the most amazing part. It only did this for custom networks. If you just used docker out of the box you would never see this. But if you used custom networks, and custom network drivers, it did this. And the docker team refused to allow any configuration options to disable it.

I now maintain a daemon who's sole job is to undo Docker's meddling with resolv.conf until I can get the bandwidth to explore migrating to Kubernetes.

Re: Why doesn’t anyone weep for Docker?

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just some minor clarifications: - DevOps is a peer with Agile and Lean. Scrum and XP are Agile implementations. Scrum doesn't prescribe ways to code, XP does. - 90% of what people develop or run today should be in containers, and not because containers are great, but because of the DevOps patterns of IaC, immutability, reproducibility, homogeneous environments. Whether you run them on your laptop, a VPC, AWS Fargate,…

>> 90% of what people develop or run today should be in containers, and not because containers are great, but because of the DevOps patterns of IaC, immutability, reproducibility, homogeneous environments Sorry but no. Container is __a__ way of achieving a small part of what you are talking about but not the only way. Break it down: - IaC: how do you containerise a load balancer? Terraform gives you infrastructure as…

[deleted]

Re: Why doesn’t anyone weep for Docker?

#219
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought I did? Also, this feels a bit passive-aggressive, did I do something wrong?

It was meant to be polite. Under the guise of "clarifying" what I said, you completely contradicted it, without even doing me the courtesy of addressing my statements directly. If it helps, my core point is: DevOps is the name we give to two philosophical ideas. The first idea is that the tools and methods of software development can be used to improve our ability to do operations work. The second idea is that siloin…

I wasn't sure how much your ideas deviated from mine, which I why I said "clarifications"; but you're slightly incorrect. DevOps isn't two philosophical ideas. It's lots of things, and all those things are the methodology. There are many books, podcasts, blogs, conferences, etc that go over all of the things DevOps is. It actually has little to do with tools or software, even though that's basically what it was created around. It is a general methodology, and you pick how you implement it. You can even apply DevOps to non-software processes.

Look at it this way: The Toyota Production System isn't about cars. It was developed specifically to produce cars as well as they could be, but it doesn't address "car problems"; it addresses business problems, production problems, workflow problems. It applies methods as practices in ways that are specific to the production of cars, but you can apply the principles of TPS to things other than building cars (as we do with Lean).

DevOps is comparable to TPS (well, Lean), but for software instead of cars, and it borrows from other systems, and it has a few of its own ideas specific to software.

> Along the way, I specifically denounced the idea that DevOps is a single methodology, or that some tools are more DevOps than others, or that DevOps makes prescriptions about what you should do. Those are all things that you immediately advocated.

I advocated using containers because they help reinforce DevOps principles better than alternatives. You don't have to use them, but that doesn't make them un-applicable to DevOps. There are different levels to DevOps, and one of them is "practices": particular ways of doing things that DevOps encourages, such as Infrastructure as Code, Immutable Infrastructure, Heterogeneous Environments, Continuous Integration & Delivery, etc. Things that containers are more useful at accomplishing than, for example, VMs.

You don't have to use Kanban to run a car production line. But it's more TPS than the alternatives.

Re: Why doesn’t anyone weep for Docker?

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kubernetes (from open sourcing to about 1.3 or 1.4) is a second system mostly written by senior engineers (from several companies) with deep experience in the problem domain and strong architectural guidance, and a willingness to stop at “just good enough” and then let stuff mature. Kube was mostly “done” from a design perspective in early 2015. Swarm was 2-3 people in the early days, without as much strong opinionat…

> I’m obviously biased - I was the first non googler to have commit on the repo. How well was your PR received?

Looks to be successful in general: https://github.com/kubernetes/kubernetes/pulls?q=is%3Apr+aut...
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