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Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

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Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#211

Post by floatingatoll »

HillaryBriss wrote: post #192
usefulcat wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Posting signs would also mean dedicating police resources to enforcement How would it /necessarily/ require dedication of additional police resources? Are you implying that there is some actual or legal requirement for the city to do so? If not, I don't see how posting a few more NTT signs is significantly different from the status quo, namely that there are already not enough police to enforce all traffic laws in…

The police would not be required to add resources to enforce these laws. But without enforcement the signs would make very little difference to LA drivers.

If drivers are not routed into residential areas by Waze as there are no thru routes for Waze to use, then they will be on their own to seek out and find ways to avoid highways and risk police citing them for taking residential zone shortcuts in the process. It won’t stop every driver, but it will curb the majority of them from ever finding or using residential zones as a bypass.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#212

Post by pie420 »

devit wrote: post #162

The obvious solutions seem to be either: 1. Add enough speedbumps, unsynchronized traffic lights or even unnecessary timed barriers to make the route slow enough that it's no longer optimal 2. Add cameras that fine anyone who doesn't have a permit to pass, which would be given to residents for free and anyone who pays a sufficiently high price

that would make sense if those were private roads. public roads belong to the public. I have the right to use the road in your neighborhood just as much as you do.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#213

Post by floatingatoll »

SkyBelow wrote: post #172
floatingatoll wrote: post #150

It’s disappointing to see LADOT neglecting to use a road management tool already at their disposal to stop Waze’s abuse of their residential zones: No Thru Traffic. Posting NTT signs at entry points into residential neighborhoods and specifying even as little as a $5 fine would make entry for thru routing unlawful, stopping Waze. Whether or not the city enforces these signs would be irrelevant, as long as the traffic…

What if Waze labeled these as possibly $5 toll roads? If the penalty to the driver is $5 that is never enforced, what is the penalty to Waze if they just inform users there may be a penalty (and maybe even add the ability for people to record if it is being enforced or not)?

If Waze labels a traffic violation as a toll, they will lose the moral high ground (“it’s legal, what is the problem?” negated) and expose both Waze and its contributors to significant liability - and risk being ordered by a court to take actions (such as “disable all routing within Los Angeles” or “provide a real-time data feed of all routings to LADOT for analysis and enforcement”).

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#214

Post by sib »

cameronbrown wrote: post #91
orthoxerox wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you use turn by turn navigation in Maps? It could've adjusted its predictions to your driving patterns.

I'd assume any kind of "ETAnet" would be trained on everyone's driving patterns, not individuals.

I don't know, but I always assumed that a simple optimization would be one that compared your typical driving speed to posted speed limits on open roads. That is, do you usually drive 5 or 10 miles (kilometers) per hour under or over the limit when you have the choice?

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#215

Post by bagacrap »

paulcole wrote: post #151
wccrawford wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" they just don't want to be feeling they are making no progress." I think you may have just convinced me to use Waze instead of Google Maps. I'd much rather relieve the stress of driving a bit than save a few minutes of time. Well, actually, I'd rather not drive at all. But seeing as that isn't really an option, I'll settle for making it less stressful.

I’m 36 and have lived in a mix of rural and urban areas of America and I never learned to drive and have never driven a car. Just want to make the point that not driving is really an option, just one that most people look for a way to avoid. It’s all a matter of priorities and as much as most people say they hate driving/traffic, very few actually do anything about it.

IME Waze is actually dangerous because it doesn't mind sending you on crazy maneuvers like making uncontrolled left turns across 8 lane roads only to immediately merge across three lanes and hang another turn. At times it saves a couple minutes, other times it backfires spectacularly, and at all times it disdains safety and simplicity. For me, it's much higher stress.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#216

Post by seattle_spring »

2_listerine_pls wrote: post #184
gambiting wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would that be possible? My sister has a new VW Polo with a 1.0L 65bhp engine, the official time to 60 is a glacial 16.5 seconds. I'm sure its acceleration profile would match that of a fully loaded HGV.

The time to turn, the time to break, way of turning lanes, all of it could be used to infer a vehicle type. I am not saying they do it, but it's likely.

If this information were used to infer vehicle size, Google would assume everyone in Seattle is driving an 18 wheeler.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#218

Post by matt-attack »

mc32 wrote: post #201
matt-attack wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And to what end? I’m of the firm belief that the good done by Waze far outweighs the cost to the NIMBYs. In LA we have a traffic crisis. Sorry but your government built and tax funded residential street is just as much mine to use as it is yours. I won’t speed through it but I sure as hell have a right to use it as much as the local home owners. The city should not be doing what your suggesting until they’ve solved t…

Residential streets are not designed for heavy through traffic. It comes back to “why we can’t have nice things”. Abuse. Many systems work when they are not abused but break down when they are abused.

Well that's not really what I hear the NIMBYs complaining about. "Hey our streets are forming ruts and potholes from the excess traffic! We need better reinforcing under our street to prevent this!"

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#219

Post by kristopolous »

kenned3 wrote: post #159
orthoxerox wrote: post #147

> These thousands of homeowners and renters have arguably been injured by Waze’s and Google’s successful privatization of formerly public streets. That's a... very creative interpetation of what public and private mean. If you don't want your side street to be driven on at 30 mph, then you can't drive on it at 30 mph either. Traffic calming measures are a thing. Make it even more winding, add road bumps, bottlenecks.…

These "NIMBY" people always make me laught. if you dont want to have a ton of traffic dont buy a house on a major road. There is a street on the subdivision i live in with the same issue. it is the main entry point to the subdivision. people bought houses there, then fought the city for years over traffic? they put up stop signs, speed bumps, etc. they wanted the lower house prices associated with living on main road…

It's worse than that in LA. These people live in an urban center, the middle of a city with millions of people, and expect it to behave like some austere countryside in New Hampshire.

If that's what they want, move. Cities aren't for antisocial shutins. Why are they here? Go get a bunch of land at a great price in the beautiful quiet countryside. Really, I wish them the best. Melrose and La Brea isn't going to be a good fit, enjoy time elsewhere.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#220

Post by bagacrap »

matt-attack wrote: post #193
floatingatoll wrote: post #150

It’s disappointing to see LADOT neglecting to use a road management tool already at their disposal to stop Waze’s abuse of their residential zones: No Thru Traffic. Posting NTT signs at entry points into residential neighborhoods and specifying even as little as a $5 fine would make entry for thru routing unlawful, stopping Waze. Whether or not the city enforces these signs would be irrelevant, as long as the traffic…

And to what end? I’m of the firm belief that the good done by Waze far outweighs the cost to the NIMBYs. In LA we have a traffic crisis. Sorry but your government built and tax funded residential street is just as much mine to use as it is yours. I won’t speed through it but I sure as hell have a right to use it as much as the local home owners. The city should not be doing what your suggesting until they’ve solved t…

Minor neighborhood roads are necessary so that residents can get home, but they were never intended for mass through traffic. Traffic near humans increases risk to life by way of accidents as well as localized air pollution (living within a short distance of a major roadway is extremely unhealthy in the long term, independently of the issue of regional air pollution that covers all of socal). Using roads for a purpose they were never engineered to serve is not the way out of LA's traffic crisis. But sure, saving two minutes on your commute is worth the cost of running over a dog or child now and then.
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