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No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

sellercentral.amazon.com

211–220 of 508 posts

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of dollars per unit weight moved, yes. They are not only moving massive amounts of cargo with low drag, they're also relatively lightweight compared to the product being moved. Also, there's no maintenance cost to keeping a flat path across the Pacific like there is in keeping roads free of potholes. In terms of environmental damage, not at all. Container ships burn some of the nastiest, most sulphrous and d…

You are wrong. Even in terms of emissions ships are the most efficient way to transport goods, in terms of km-tonnes.

I appreciate that you cited a paper, but I think you are overstating. The paper discusses CO2 emissions, which indeed are lower for transport by ship than by trains. But the parent was talking about "environmental damage" from ships that burn the "nastiest, most sulphrous and damaging forms of crude oil", and thus was referring to pollutants other than just CO2.

This report, for instance (I have not read it completely) says "Rail is generally the cleanest mode of transport for most pollutants" and "Maritime shipping is one of the cleanest mode of freight transport, except for PM and specific sulphur oxide (SOx) emissions". While there is lots of emphasis currently on CO2 emissions, other pollutants are also worth considering.

https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/indicators/specific-...

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#212

This is one way to mitigate knock off products from China. If the shipping costs come up to the norm, they won't always (if ever) be the cheapest product so the real one will win out more often. Various products will have different tipping points where it just doesn't make sense to ship and/or they aren't getting enough sales to justify it. Personally, I like it and it seems like everyone wins.. except people who und…

Nonsense, not everything from China is a knockoff and there are a lot of genuine non-copied products. How weird to think their economy is just "inferior knockoffs".

[deleted]

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a problem? Seems like if they do that then it's US domestic mail, playing by all the same rules (and high rates) as any other domestic mail item. Competing with Chinese shippers would look exactly the same as competing with anyone shipping out of LA/Oakland/Seattle.

It’s just not going to be a boon to US drop-shippers, the Chinese ones will still have a lower cost of operations by dealing direct and almost 100% Chinese labour costs.

I think most will agree that is a "fair" competitive advantage.

What myself and I think most find problematic is that the USPS is actually subsidizing Chinese packages inbound to the US, to the point where its somehow cheaper to send from China than domestically.

That may have made sense at some point when China was still in its embryonic phase of development, but they are well past the point where this is necessary or desirable.

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#214
post #23

Can someone shed light on the subsidy structure behing the current model, are shipments from China being subsidized by shipments from other countries or is there government money involved ? In any case this kind of subsidy is not necessarily bad for developing countries, and it was probably instrumental in China's phenomenal economic growth, but it is now in the conquering superpower category, it's time it loses this…

The explanation I've heard is: The Universal Postal Union rules for how international mail is paid for were established at a time when most mail was letters, and most letters would need a reply by letter. So on average, every international letter delivered in Country X behalf of the Country Y postal service would be balanced by one letter delivered in Country Y on behalf of the Country X postal service. No exchange o…

Even if they did, there's often a substantial cost difference between delivering an order form and delivering the goods being ordered. I'm not sure I've ever ordered something as small and light as a letter.

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#215
I'm wondering how this is going to effect the hobbyist and small business electronics markets here in the United States?

Know how cheap and easy it is to get a small number PCBs made in China and shipped to the US? That's over.

So is any number of small electronic parts that would've been shipped free or cheaply from China. Cheap ESP8266 boards? Nope. Cheap automotive relays? Nope. Basically any and every kind of piece of electronics components, modules, etc you can think of will jump in price drastically.

Even if it doesn't need to - it will (like I've seen on the tariffs, prices jumped for small amounts of electronic components just because, even if they were being shipped directly to the end-user consumer - when that's not a part of the tariffs - direct to consumer sales shouldn't be affected, but because the vendors could do it, they did it anyhow - just to make some extra cash).

So where are hobbyists and others supposed to get these parts now?

Digikey and Mouser for some of it. Surplus for others. But for boards and modules and such - well, there's just Sparkfun and Adafruit - maybe a couple of others (not sure?).

But they are likely to raise their prices too, because they depend on the components (resistors, diodes, mosfets, chips, aka the "raw materials") to make their boards (Sparkfun makes them in-house - or at least some of them - but I don't know what Adafruit does).

Or we'll have to pay the extra shipping fees and other costs (because the chinese sellers will just add on some extra cost - just to grab it - it's inevitable).

This will have a ripple effect; small entrepreneurs and startups - kickstarter startups especially - won't be able to compete, unless they base themselves in Shenzhen - because where are they going to get the components cheaper than a competitor who is already there? They aren't made in America any longer (and they never will be again - get that fantasy out of your head if you think that's going to happen).

Radio Row is gone. The original "silicon valley" is gone. Heck, there used to be a ton of computer (mini) manufacturers and businesses here in Phoenix - they are virtually gone, too.

And now with this change - however you feel about it - is going to hobble the next up-and-comers, and current suppliers. At least, that's how I am seeing it.

Now I'll admit - it wasn't fair for competition here - but it wasn't as if China was doing something wrong, as far as I understand it. They were playing by the rules set forth by an international body. Maybe it wasn't fair to us. But instead of letting this kind of thing go on for 1-2 decades, it should have been fixed back then. Now it is likely to destroy or severely change at least one or more areas of enthusiast and hobbyist things (think also RC, drones, etc), as well as probably a ton of other non-electronic things. Do we really think there are that many suppliers here in the US that will charge low prices (competitive with Chinese suppliers) and have fair shipping rates to boot?

The fact is, it will likely still be cheaper to ship it from China, even with the extra cost on shipping - since you're going to be paying that anyhow. For instance - my goto - 12V DC gearmotors. I can buy one kind from a supplier of Ametek (maybe Mouser or Digikey); I will pay whatever the high cost of shipping such an item to my door in addition to the price. Have you ever priced those motors in small quantities?

When you can get them...I've seen prices 10-20x over the equivalent motor from a supplier in China. What would cost $15.00 in China for a single motor, can be up to $100.00 or more from a US manufacturer for the same specs. Let's say it cost $10.00 to ship to my door, whether from China or the US, and let's say the Chinese supplier adds on an extra $5.00 "just because fee" - well, which is cheaper? $110.00 dollars for the US motor, or $30.00 for the Chinese motor?

It's all a farce in my opinion - this administration essentially raising prices, which is going to be passed on to the consumer ultimately, trying to gain support from US small businesses (that's the political angle), at the expense of the rest of consumers, and is selling it with some kind of idea or expectation that this is somehow going to lead to the United States becoming a large scale manufacturer of "everything" that we get from China now. Of course what isn't said is that, even if that fantasy somehow did become true - those items manufactured here would still cost a hell of a lot more to make, and they would be virtually unsaleable on the international market because of that (let's ignore the fact that we'll be lucky if other countries ever buy from us again).

I see a very, very bleak future ahead for this country - no matter what happens with this current administration or the next. Maybe that was always going to be the case. The problem is, prior to this admin, that date was likely out a few decades - now those decades have been erased, and that future is happening now (and it is worse than it would have been had it happened "naturally" I think).

I say if you are an American and are under 30 years of age, and you have any marketable skills at all, you might want to think long and hard about emigrating. Dead serious on this.

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#216

The impression I get from that thread is that the dream here is now Americans can do what they do best, sit in the middle of transactions and collect rent. Previously, you could go to a Chinese website and have the Chinese factory send you a widget directly to your door. Now that will be too expensive, but hey we have a solution! An American will order a bunch of widgets in bulk, ship them over in a cargo ship, come…

Pretty much. I absolutely fucking hate Amazon now. It's full of white label products. You can tell the seller does no real safety testing of any kind from their broad array of random shit. You can't even trust the kitchen equipment for chance they made the steel with lead or the silicone is mixed with something toxic, etc. Completely unregulated market place of stupid. And this is on top of Amazon's counterfeit probl…

> I absolutely fucking hate Amazon now. It's full of white label products.

So is Walmart and Dollar General. It's always been the customer's responsibility to buy the product they want, not the store's. Don't want counterfeit crap? Don't buy IFONE FROM APPEL in the listings. I don't know when the last time I got counterfeit crap from amazon is because I look at what I buy before I buy it.

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#217
post #205
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that the program described there, ePacket, is now profitable for the USPS. It took them a few years to scale up but it's been profitable for years now.

Source?

https://www.uspsoig.gov/sites/default/files/document-library... estimates $74 million profit for 2016 using internal data.

https://www.uspsoig.gov/sites/default/files/document-library... says they were profitable in 2015. See page 8 and footnote 17.

As far as I can tell, there's been no other public info released since then.

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#218
post #207
post #5

This actually sounds like a good thing. It costs Chinese shippers almost nothing to send stuff directly from China, while it costs me quite a lot to send stuff within the US, largely because I'm subsidizing all the Chinese shippers. Moreover, for me to send any parcel (even very small ones, like 2 oz.) outside the US costs a small fortune these days, again because I'm subsidizing the Chinese shippers.

Maybe it is anecdotal, but whenever I order anything from China on Amazon, it takes exponentially longer to receive my product. Once I got Christmas items that I ordered in November the following March. There was no recourse when it happened either. I know it's a long distance, but it's substantially longer than orders I've made from other parts of the world. So I avoid purchasing from there.

It's very common to get (large) items via DHL from mainland China to SF in less than a week. The US simply doesn't manufacture the same set of items. Raising the cost to order items from China for political reasons will just hurt existing business. There's no alternative, I have a choice to pay more or not buy.

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wal-Mart merchandise is not shipped via international post. This UPU situation has no influence here.

If Chinese sellers get locked out, where will I turn to buy those same goods?

They won't be locked out, they'll just now have to pay whatever the standard rates for USPS shipping (or whichever carrier they'll use), instead of the artificially low rates mandated by the UPU. Presumably someone (whether in China or in the US) will find it worth selling whatever widget you want, just the shipping cost won't be subsidized.
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