Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Svalbard is as close as you can get to a place with open borders

thenation.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 270 posts

Re: Svalbard is as close as you can get to a place with open borders

#211

Post by tathougies »

pilsetnieks wrote: post #128
gambiting wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which was dumb then and still is - UK was never part of the Schengen agreement and has full control of its borders, it can stop anyone from entering as it pleases.

Not really, no. One of the basic tenets of the EU single market is free movement of goods and people. Schengen agreement just removes border controls. UK has the freedom to stop any non-EU citizen from entering as it pleases but so does every other EU country, including the Schengen ones.

To clarify the united states system, states have rights to regulate commerce within their territories. So movement of goods is not in fact free. For example, California has border gates where they will sporadically check for and confiscate certain agricultural products.

Yes, the state that wants to be a sanctuary state has border gates and enforcement.

Re: Svalbard is as close as you can get to a place with open borders

#212

Post by mikeash »

pixl97 wrote: post #202
mikeash wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me. I hate how the planet is arbitrarily sliced up. I hate the bureaucratic nonsense involved in going to various parts of it. I hate how my wife is forced to choose between citizenship in her country of birth and citizenship in her country of residence. I hate how our children have to get government approval just to visit their grandparents. And I hate how my welcome home to my own country after a brutally long plan…

Cool, but we're not going to do much about changing that anytime in the near future. The vast inequality between different places along with massively overpopulated locations in others sees sure to that.

No shit. That’s why it’s a “dream.”

Re: Svalbard is as close as you can get to a place with open borders

#213

Post by tathougies »

rootusrootus wrote: post #151
snowwrestler wrote: post #35

I think the degree to which open borders are a reality within the U.S. is under-appreciated. As a reminder, U.S. states are sovereign entities with their own criminal laws, tax regimes, educational systems, property and contract rights, civil rights, economic growth, industries, natural resources, etc. In some cases their laws are pre-empted by U.S. federal law, but there remains quite a bit of diversity. Despite thi…

Oregon and Washington are an interesting case. Washington has the most regressive tax system in the US. Oregon is one of the least regressive (yeah, all states are regressive). You would think that wealthy folks would really want to move across the river to escape Oregon's income tax. The problem, though, is that there are just two bridges across the river and they are frequently very busy, and 99% of everything is o…

The issue is washingtonians working in oregon would pay oregon tax. Tax applies if you work in the state not if you live there. Living in portland and working in Washington is the best bet if you can pull it off

Re: Svalbard is as close as you can get to a place with open borders

#214

Post by tathougies »

sm4rk0 wrote: post #186
snowwrestler wrote: post #35

I think the degree to which open borders are a reality within the U.S. is under-appreciated. As a reminder, U.S. states are sovereign entities with their own criminal laws, tax regimes, educational systems, property and contract rights, civil rights, economic growth, industries, natural resources, etc. In some cases their laws are pre-empted by U.S. federal law, but there remains quite a bit of diversity. Despite thi…

But the U.S. is still one country.

Only to outsiders because individual states do not make treaties with foreign countries. However states do sometimes send their own commercial ambassadors and meet with world leaders.

States also retain full sovereignty of their territory except for limited cases and maintain their own armies navies and air forces

Re: Svalbard is as close as you can get to a place with open borders

#215

Post by diminoten »

chrchang523 wrote: post #204
diminoten wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California is not too expensive and polluted due to immigration, it's too expensive and polluted due to Americans. It's also neither polluted nor expensive, when you consider the entire state. Some of the most barren places in the US are in California, as are some very poor areas. It's a big state, which is my whole point, the US is huge . But I get it, you want nice things and you don't want others to have them. Too…

The US has a far better track record than any other leading power in history when it comes to facilitating the development of other countries into nice places. See e.g. http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2009/11/how-americans-spent-th... , or consider the motivation behind the Optional Practical Training student visa provision. As a US citizen, I personally spent three years working in China for a Chinese company, on sala…

You can be opposed, but that doesn't make your position correct. In fact, based on your steadfast commitment to your position despite the glaring evidence I've put directly in front of you, that... kind of makes you stubbornly closed minded.

The fact that you're not even talking about the things I mentioned in my earlier comments should be a red flag for you; why won't you talk about the facts related to immigration into the US? I wonder, maybe it's because the facts won't support your position?

Re: Svalbard is as close as you can get to a place with open borders

#216

Post by coldtea »

HillaryBriss wrote: post #194
coldtea wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And LA's poor millions are free to crowd right into to Beverly Hills and just start grabbing up some of that wealth. Yeah, not really free. They can't pay rent in Beverly Hills, they can't afford to shop at Beverly Hills shops, they can't even be walking around looking poor without harassment (especially if also black/latino), they don't have access to closed communities, and so on...

> they can't even be walking around looking poor without harassment (especially if also black/latino) I don't quite know where you're getting that. I mean, it's not like the city has enacted some kind of Jim Crow regime. Beverly Hills residents were among Barack Obama's most generous donors. You think they would stand for that kind of evil in their own city? Beverly Hills is represented by Democrats at the state and…

>I don't quite know where you're getting that. I mean, it's not like the city has enacted some kind of Jim Crow regime.

Such places have done exactly that, in several ways. E.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining

This a good source of tens of other methods (and it's not even up to day) used in L.A in general to keep the "riffraff" out:

https://www.amazon.com/City-Quartz-Excavating-Future-Angeles...

>Beverly Hills residents were among Barack Obama's most generous donors.

That's not really relevant. They can virtue signal how non-racist they are (as long as it doesn't cost them anything real -- donations help buy favors) and still only live in 99% white areas, with closed gates, and local pops/private police ready to harass black/latino people for your protection.

>You think they would stand for that kind of evil in their own city?

100%

Re: Svalbard is as close as you can get to a place with open borders

#217

Post by tathougies »

wmil wrote: post #189

From another article: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/10/world/europe/a-harsh-clim... "The key to Svalbard’s status as probably Europe’s closest thing to a crime-free society, according to the governor, is that unemployment is in effect illegal. “If you don’t have a job, you can’t live here,” Mr. Ingero said, noting that the jobless are swiftly deported. Retirees are sent away, too, unless they can prove they have su…

Having deportation along with open borders is the best example of how doublethink has taken over any sane discussion of nordic economies and government

Re: Svalbard is as close as you can get to a place with open borders

#218

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

sixstringtheory wrote: post #90
rayiner wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You dramatically overestimate how much of an economic difference there is between MD and WV: https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vwpy8_glsgc/Vi5llZ9ZILI/AAAAAAAAI... . Adjusting for purchasing power, the difference in median income is just 10%. It’s like the difference between Belgium and Australia. On the flip side, there is actually quite a difference between states like New York (second poorest in the US) and Virginia. And…

Having driven all over both MD and WV, both in cities and country. they are _very_ different. I also think that Belgium and Australia are very different in many ways, but they're also on opposite sides of the earth, whereas, as was pointed out, MD and WV share a border. I've also been all over NY and VA and would say they are more similar compared to the WV vs MD comparison. I'm not sure where you saw that NY is the…

The "second poorest" is likely a misquote. The Hasidic community of Kiryas Joel has a notably high official poverty rate due to the lifestyle of the people living there. This is one village in one county. The entire state in aggregate is not anywhere near the poorest even with NYC removed.

Re: Svalbard is as close as you can get to a place with open borders

#219

Post by jobigoud »

EGreg wrote: post #52

In Russia you can take a tour boat to St Petersburg from Finland and they let you in for 3 days no problem. True of many countries that accept cruises. I think cruise ship may be a good way to get into a country without trying to get a visa.

If you are in transit through China you can also visit on a special transit visa granted directly at the airport. I think you can stay 72h.

Re: Svalbard is as close as you can get to a place with open borders

#220

Post by FakeComments »

gambiting wrote: post #153
ArnoVW wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Schengen is about being able to check at your borders. Indeed the UK can still do that, despite being in Europe. However, the UK still has to allow free movement of people. Meaning that it can not stop Europeans from living in the UK. This does not cover working though, and I believe that some European nationalities still have to apply for a work permit. See http://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/147/free-…

UK can stop anyone who is deemed national security from entering(if the worry is criminals coming here) and free movement applies only if you're employed, a student or can demonstrate that you have enough funds to live here without assistance - without it you can be denied entry. So that should solve the issue of "immigrants coming here for benefits". Really, UK has full power over its borders, it just chose not to e…

I always interpreted Brexit as people going nuclear in response to politicians callously calculating they can ignore public sentiment and decline to use those powers, in the name of advancing the politician’s ideology.

For example, people weren’t pleased by those rape gangs being covered up because it might offend immigrants to prosecute raping children. That’s what “multiculturalism” meant in the UK — subjecting children to rapes so you don’t offend people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_child_sex_abuse_ring

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploit...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46684638

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-45918845

These are all first page results on Google for “British grooming gang” — there’s many, many more cases of immigrants raping British children.

Post reply on HN