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Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

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Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#211

Post by lotsofpulp »

jkaplowitz wrote: post #170
lotsofpulp wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The difference between $80k or $200k salary makes almost no difference in quality of life. I don’t see how this is true for any urban area, where $80k will not let you save any significant amount whereas $200k will provide you a decent cushion in case your incoming cash flow experiences turbulence. The peace of mind resulting from this certainly improves quality of life, especially if you have mouths to feed. Also,…

Hello from Montreal, where everything you said is true for either dollar amount, even in Canadian dollars. And indeed, tech salaries in that range are plenty available here. The low end of tech salaries is below $80k, but the threshold where things start getting tight is also below $80k, so no problem. (Of course $200k will allow faster growth of savings and investment or a more luxurious lifestyle, but even $80k can…

I guess I should clarify that my perspective is from US urban areas, and the single biggest risk people in the US face is having a health issue which forces you to not be able to work, and deal with extremely high medical care costs.

For me, comfortable middle class living does not just include the food/shelter you need, but also protection from volatility such as changes in labor market, your family members’ health, and ability to take leave from work. As the US doesn’t provide any of this, you have to pay for it, in the form of savings and investments for yourself.

The other component of it is that in my lifetime, the income/wealth gap has grown and grown. Opportunities for your children decrease if you don’t stay ahead of the curve, so this is also another risk to protect against by earning enough to be able to live in the better school districts and provide your kids with a better shot of income stability for their future.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#212

Post by CalRobert »

andreilys wrote: post #168
c22 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a solid observation. I made a personal decision sometime in my late 20s to never do anything for money that I wouldn't also be willing to do for free. As a result of this decision I make a lot less money than many of my peers, but I'm always working on projects I'm excited about and I have more free time than most of the people I know. If anything, like you, I feel sorry for the people I see working all the t…

Money buys freedom from wage slavery.

It sure does. Which is why I try to spend it on things I care about, and not things my (landlord, student/car/mortgage debt servicer), etc. cares about.

It's easier to not spend a million bucks than to make a million bucks.

I love cities and fine food, but eventually I realized how much I was paying for the privilege and decided I wanted out. A cheap house and a garden go a long ways.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#213

Post by krageon »

JohnBooty wrote: post #197
ludston wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not cognitive dissonance. That's learning and growing. This is committing the straw-man fallacy. The poster that this is responding to did not elaborate on what cognitive-dissonance they are referring to. In this case "learning and growing" is an optimistic, ego-stroking spin on "admitting defeat". I believe that AndrewKemendo has chosen his words carefully because being able to lose and fail graciously is m…

My post's not straw man. I responded to precisely what the parent poster said. They were very specific about the cognitive dissonance they perceived. If we're pointing out actual logical fallacies... to lose and fail graciously is more virtuous than trying to preserve the ego and pretend that it was a win In a universe where those are the only two possibilities? Sure. You and OP are presenting a false dichotomy. Pare…

I think the point they were driving at was not that nobody can change their goals. It is just inconceivable to them that that is not failure. To set a different goal, you must first fail at the last one (if you did not achieve it).

That is of course a way to look at your life that is perfectly okay, but it certainly wouldn't be my preference.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#214

Post by CalRobert »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #146
CalRobert wrote: post #81

At the end of the day, it's just a fucking job. If you need the money I understand the envy, and I've been there. But ultimately most of us are working really hard to make other people rich. Being really good at that game (and it's a pretty bitter game) isn't something to be envious of. I have never seen a high paying job in tech that wasn't ALSO higher stress and generally more hours. I'm sure exceptions exist, but…

My question to people with this attitude is, what is the point of your life? I've lost a lot of friends and recognize that life is way too short to not be putting as much time as possible toward something you find totally compelling. The stock answer is contentment and "happiness." The most content person I've ever met was a flower cart man in Belmopan, Belize. Probably made $100 a week at most. He knew all he wanted…

"How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives. "

- Annie Dillard

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#215

Post by MassiveOwl »

lewiscollard wrote: post #46

I am 36, my job title is a Lead Developer (I made it despite fucking up all of my late teens and the entirety of my 20s), and I have been outclassed in some respects by people in their 20s, and I am at peace with this. You know there is some aspect of jealousy going on here, and being so self-aware in that way is really important and you're half the way there already! So any time you feel that you want to tear apart…

I'd be interested in your take on this as someone slightly older than the cliched tech employee.

To be honest, i'm never usually that impressed with people that are in their mid-20s and working as developers. They can typically produce good output, but in my experience they are unable to state 'why' something works well. They're following best practices laid down by people in their 40s/50s years ago. I think they have the energy to not give up and trawl the forums till they get the answer, not necessarily finding the answer by considering the principles underlying the task

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#216

Post by rswskg »

mikekchar wrote: post #178
andreilys wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money buys freedom from wage slavery.

There was a cool article I saw quite a while ago where a father of 2 and sole provider for his family found that it was next to impossible to survive comfortably in London on half a million GBP per year. He went through all the numbers and showed how it just couldn't be done. Of course he was making 10x what would be considered a good wage in London. It wasn't his salary, it was his minimum standard that was out of w…

I've seen simnilar calculations putting it at £150k and assuming private schools. To be fair, I would probably agree with that number.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#217

Post by gingabriska »

High flying - most of the times people are only good at some specific things and you've no idea what silly things (according to you) they might be struggling with.

Invalidate them - well, this is an emotional response, I've experienced it in chatroom/real life too where some person contributes too much value instead of getting respect they end up getting attacked. Untill, they move beyond the point where their success speaks for them and where attacking them would only result on you wasting your time. So understand someone is good at something and move on, maybe instead of invalidating them, befriend them and play supporting role in their work if you want to, maybe someday they'll take backseat and push you forward to carry on the baton.

What happened to Galileo, it's high time you realize you might not get instant respect and acknowledgment for what you contribute, you should only look for respect and validation from yourself, not from others. It's difficult yes, but once you go this route, what others say will stop mattering.

Bunch of people praising someone isn't sign of genius as ability to hear thunder isn't sign of good ear.

When I was young, I did try to invalidate everyone's success this resulted in me being bitter and outcast and finally being alone. That much negativity isn't good for anyone's sanity.

Now if I find someone is good at something, I ask them for my role, I ask them if they want me to do something for them. I want to part of their team, not always it's possible but I acknowledge their efforts and success and never invalidate it.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#218

Post by kamaal »

badatshipping wrote: post #126

You realize Vitalik Buterin invented Ethereum when he was 19? The guys who did the Manhattan Project were disgustingly young. Newton invented calculus when he was 21. Hell, Nas released Illmatic when he was 21. The world has a few winners and lots of losers. Like me, you’re probably a loser. This is just part of the tragicomedy of life. For most of history people were born farmers and died farmers. The best thing you…

>>For most of history people were born farmers and died farmers.

Individual suffering is one thing.

But for most of history, and for most of history to come. Every one is anonymous.

Read Ozymandias. No one really knows Julius Ceasar. No one.

Which is why fame almost always useless, from an historical perspective. Having a name(famous) means nothing.

Re: Ask HN: How do you deal with professional envy?

#220

Post by mikekchar »

rswskg wrote: post #216
mikekchar wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a cool article I saw quite a while ago where a father of 2 and sole provider for his family found that it was next to impossible to survive comfortably in London on half a million GBP per year. He went through all the numbers and showed how it just couldn't be done. Of course he was making 10x what would be considered a good wage in London. It wasn't his salary, it was his minimum standard that was out of w…

I've seen simnilar calculations putting it at £150k and assuming private schools. To be fair, I would probably agree with that number.

I've lived in London (even fairly recently) on 32K :-) No kids, but a non-working wife... I have a bad habit of taking jobs that look like fun rather than pay well :-D I'm not being sarcastic when I say that you can probably draw that line pretty arbitrarily and make a pretty good case that you are giving up something crucial if you go below that level. Even being single, though, I think it would challenge the most frugal person to live on less than 25K in London. For a spouse and 2 kids... a heck of a lot more, to be completely fair.
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