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France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

bbc.com

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Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#211

Post by ineedasername »

bko wrote: post #102
ripdog wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those large tech companies can make money in France because the french government provides all that is necessary for a free, fair and functioning market. How could Google make money in France if there was no french police force, education system, market regulation, court system, contract enforcement? All money made on the white market in any country is facilitated by that government, and taxes are paid on all profits…

> All money made on the white market in any country is facilitated by that government, and taxes are paid on all profits to pay for the services which allowed the profit to be made. So any taxation is justified? > It's not arbitrary to expect businesses to pay for services they benefit from. Any digital company with revenue of more than €750m ($850m; £670m) - of which at least €25m is generated in France - would be s…

>so any type of tax is justified?

That's a straw man. You're leaping from "some type of tax is justified" which is quite a bit more reasonable than "any tax".

And if you want to say it's a slippery slope or some such, well, ever single action if extrapolated to the extreme can be a viewed as such. If 3% is reasonable and then it's proposed to goes up and up, fight the increase, not the initial reasonable action. Of course this may be putting words in your mouth, so I won't attribute it to you, only that I preempt a logical counter to mine.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#212

Post by cyrksoft »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #58
csomar wrote: post #52

This is a stupid move. The tax is not payed by big tech giants. Not by both, either. It's complicated and depends on who needs whom the more. If there are no alternative to AWS, Google Adsense, or an American SaaS in France; the French people will be paying all of the tax. The big tech giants will just slap them with a 3% surcharge for being in France. This is different from US-China tariffs. If the US can source fro…

This would incentivize competitors in France. That’s a good thing for France.

With that argument, protectionism will incentivise competition. So why don’t we close the economy a bit?

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#213

Post by pyrale »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #162
ars wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed the question. why is France charging tax to these particular companies? As opposed to all companies? Your answer makes no distinction between them so doesn't actually answer the question.

that's the point the French are bringing up. French companies pay French taxes. Internet companies serve French markets, take French money, but pay taxes elsewhere, and often they pay no taxes because they can shop around to find a friendly tax haven that doesn't charge them taxes. This is only possible because internet. So, they're imposing a tax on companies that serve French customers via the internet but aren't b…

> So, they're imposing a tax on companies that serve French customers via the internet but aren't based in France

Actually, this would be unconstitutionnal. French companies meeting the criteria will also pay taxes.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#214

Post by buboard »

99052882514569 wrote: post #208
buboard wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you call avoidance is the essence of EU. Undoing that would bring us back to pre-EEC situation

Tax avoidance via jurisdictional arbitrage is certainly not the essence of EU.

Cross border trade is. And digital businesses , finance, shipping , and many more will increasingly become remote. Right now EU artificially inflates local presence with regulations (by e g not having a bank union). Like it or not though, free trade zone means that taxes wont be paid uniformly. I know that tax avoidance is seen as unfair but it was enabled by the Union.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#215

Post by throwaway2048 »

cstejerean wrote: post #139
Renaud wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. VAT is basically a tax paid by people. Companies don’t really pay VAT, they collect it from the end-customers and pass it to the state. Relying on VAT alone skews the burden of financing the state on the people only, which means no participation from the companies that make money without directly contributing to the country’s expenses they benefit from. It also disproportionately disadvantages companies that also…

And you think this new surcharge won’t be passed onto the consumers in France?

This is the biggest fallacy about taxation, if they could charge whatever the price+tax is, they already would be.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#216

Post by friedman23 »

inscionent wrote: post #207
friedman23 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google accesses a market of French advertisers, and that market exists because of French government. Why don't you try justifying that one? Because I posit that if the French government didn't exist the market would exist anyway.

[flagged]

How does your comment respond to my question? Your comment adds nothing to the discussion, it's just lazy nonsense that a child could have come up with.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#218

Post by toomuchtodo »

cyrksoft wrote: post #212
toomuchtodo wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would incentivize competitors in France. That’s a good thing for France.

With that argument, protectionism will incentivise competition. So why don’t we close the economy a bit?

Whether you're /s or not, I wholly agree; I both fully support using public policy, tariffs, and other economic mechanisms to support "at home" companies over those abroad, as well as supporting local labor over that outside the country.

If internet companies are the future of the economy (see: Stripe's opinion), why wouldn't you do everything you could as a country to support your own companies?

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#219

Post by rasz »

TearsInTheRain wrote: post #185
ElKrist wrote: post #21

The US administration is presenting the new tax as if it was specifically targeted to US companies because of their origin. Like a tariff. It is not the case at all. Yes the biggest tech giants that do not pay enough tax are mostly from the US (also other companies from other countries are affected too) But it is not because they are from the US that this new tax is created. It is simply because they don't pay enough…

How much tax is enough tax?

more than 4 milion on $11.3bn of revenue

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/aug/02/amazon-ha...

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#220

Post by charlesdm »

opportune wrote: post #195

Part of me originally wanted the US to retaliate since this theoretically threatens my paycheck, but a 3% tax on revenue generated within the country is pretty low and seems reasonable considering how ineffective taxing profits is due to loopholes. I really don't think it's sour grapes so much as trying to address the Irish/Luxembourgish tax schemes

Correct in theory. But have you looked at french tax policy? The issue with new taxes is that often it starts at 3%, then goes up gradually to 5, then to 7, and before you know it you have a 15% turnover tax.

France is a lovely country, but one of the worst players when it comes to tax policy. The never ending appetite to increase the spending of the state does not stop...

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