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Libra, 2 Weeks In

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Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#211

Post by boohoojangles »

mongol wrote: post #144
mrweasel wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like in small stores that can’t really afford to have a credit card terminal Remember that most of those small stores are able to do this by breaking the terms of service. Accepting MobilePay is NOT free for business, it's not even cheap. As a customers is pretty easy to spot, if the stores MobilePay number is just their phone number, they're breaking the terms of service, and you should pay cash.

I understand it is a breach of terms of service but as a customer, why should you care? It is not like it is breaching the law. And small businesses live on a much smaller margin than banks.

I somewhat care because it seems like a bit prone to tax fraud. Not sure if it is easy for the Danish tax agencies to spot this kind of transaction and enforce tax collection though.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#212

Post by sametmax »

Lucadg wrote: post #127

This is the part where they reveal how they plan to negotiate with regulators: "At the core, we believe that a network that helps move more cash transactions — where a lot of illicit activities happen — to a digital network that features regulated on and off ramps with proper know-your-customer (KYC) practices, combined with the ability for law enforcement and regulators to conduct their own analysis of on-chain acti…

Not just privacy. Democracy in general.

No cash mean you can't do anything that has not been validated by the state first.

It means kids will have less options to foul around without the parents checking it.

It means you won't be able to pay in a gay bar anonymously.

It means any new (and hence controversial) political concept will have no way to financially grow to acceptance.

It means no living off the grid.

It means hobo will be even more excluded.

It means in case of crisis, the financial system is paralyzed.

It means if powerful people wants something bad for you, you can't be on the run.

It means easy censorship against unpopular activists or artists.

It means no way to test a weird idea off the record to see if it's worth it.

It means no escape if the gov raises taxes in an unjust way.

It means no workaround for paralyzing bureaucracy.

It means no grandpa selling his home grown vegetable at the farmer market on the side.

It means everything you do, where you do, at what time and with whom is tracked, permanently recorded, then passed to algo or AI for analysis.

No grey area. No margin of error.

Just the immovable, inflexible structure of current society imposing itself to everybody.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#213

Post by lightgreen »

TomMckenny wrote: post #140
lightgreen wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article seems not to mention currency conversion. So I’m sorry I still don’t understand how buying a condo helps converting rubles to dollars. I see how buying a condo helps to launder corrupt Russian money, but it is unrelated to the currency, it works the same regardless of what the currency is, dollars or libra. I don’t think Facebook (or whichever libra provider is) would allow users sending a million dollar…

Assuming they wanted to prevent large transactions, how will they? Is Facebook planing to be solely responsible for clearing every transaction? Because the article literally says they plan "gradually transitioning to a permissionless state" and "Facebook will not control the network". And, not that this is their plan anyway, but how could they prevent Libra's from crossing borders if it is permissionless? And even if…

> Assuming they wanted to prevent large transactions, how will they? Is Facebook planing to be solely responsible for clearing every transaction?

Same ways banks connected to Visa deny certain transactions.

> Because the article literally says they plan "gradually transitioning to a permissionless state"

I must admit I don’t understand what permissionless means. It’s not possible to be truly permissionless if you a member of the network prints money.

> Facebook will not control the network

Other members of the network can do the same transaction moderation.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#215

Post by touristtam »

kenny_r wrote: post #192
roel_v wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"all non cash transactions. Which you kind of have to do to with any sizeable quantity of money (say over 100k)" Sort of related, in the Netherlands, we will soon (2 years or so) have a ban on cash transaction of more than 3000 euros. Not to one-up, just saying that it's happening. To be fair, I contribute to this by doing pretty much all payments electronically. Just like I contribute to local bookstores disappearin…

The same €3000 limit for cash transactions has already been implemented in Belgium, France has an even stricter limit of €1000. Starting in January, the ECB will stop the distribution of the €500 bill. We're nearing the death of cash.

Interesting; I believe the creation of the 500 bill was at the request of Germany. This is the second visible 'give in' from Germany after not getting their candidate at the head of the ECB. Makes you wonder what they have traded this for.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#216

Post by mrweasel »

mongol wrote: post #144
mrweasel wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like in small stores that can’t really afford to have a credit card terminal Remember that most of those small stores are able to do this by breaking the terms of service. Accepting MobilePay is NOT free for business, it's not even cheap. As a customers is pretty easy to spot, if the stores MobilePay number is just their phone number, they're breaking the terms of service, and you should pay cash.

I understand it is a breach of terms of service but as a customer, why should you care? It is not like it is breaching the law. And small businesses live on a much smaller margin than banks.

The business REALLY should care as all of their transactions are at risk of being voided, and the money returned to the customers if they're found to be violating the terms of service.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#217

Post by tigerlily »

I like to think of cash as a kind of slack in the system. Yeah there's corrupt stuff going on, but I like its immediacy and utility. A digital currency that is under full surveillance would just cause the whole financial machinery to seize up like a rusted Rube Goldberg.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#218

Post by orbifold »

H8crilA wrote: post #146
unwrap wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am confused. I live in a country with "banking services", but almost nobody here uses them. We get paid on debit cards, and then we immediately withdraw the sum in cash. We pay for everything in cash, why would we ever switch to something different? I can only see the negative consequences: the usual privacy implications (some guy can see what I spend my money on); the danger of not being able to spend money at all…

So you can participate in the digital economy, like using (the local equivalent of) Amazon or Spotify.

Both of those don’t seem super essential if you don’t even have a bank account. maybe get a bank account first and then think about a subscription music service, also both amazon and Spotify sell prepaid gift cards for this purpose, which you can buy in any super market here.

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#219

Post by robteix »

chicob wrote: post #150

In Portuguese, "libra" is the word for the British Pound Sterling (GBP). I wonder how it is being branded here and whether there will be some kind of confusion, or mandatory differentiation.

Currency names are not unique. How many countries use "dollar" or "peso"? Portuguese-speakers don't seem to have a problem with that, so I'm sure they will somehow find a way to deal with two "libras"

Re: Libra, 2 Weeks In

#220

Post by antihero »

Well I can't use Libra, because an algorithm banned me for an obvious joke post and has absolutely nothing in terms of a proper appeals process or accountability. So if I had ever depended on Libra I'd be up shit creek, I guess?
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