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San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

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Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#211

Post by eridius »

asdff wrote: post #207
eridius wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, because intentionally designing a harmful product to appeal towards kids and get them hooked on nicotine is perfectly fine, just as long as we eventually crack down on the ads.

How is it designed to appeal towards kids? It's just good design that's dirt simple and works. If you look at their previous product, the pax, it's right in line with their design language and philosophy.

The flavored nicotine is the part that's intended to hook kids, and as I already mentioned, the advertising was pretty blatantly targeted at kids.

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#212

Post by driverdan »

munk-a wrote: post #200
qes wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the adoption rate of smoking among younger folks has spiked since flavoured e-cigs were introduced Are you calling vaping "smoking"? Because that would be disingenuous. Also you may as well just say "since e-cigs were introduced" since there was never a time that they weren't flavored.

I am calling it smoking, "vaping" is a euphemism that just recently entered the language in an effort to rebrand the action of smoking because being "a smoker" now has a negative connotation. "Smoking" has never been a literal description of that action - the literal description is "inhaling tobacco" which is still occurring. The fact that using e-cigarettes is viewed as a more healthy way for smokers to continue the…

What are you talking about? Smoking is inhaling the smoke of a burned product. Vaping is not. It's not comparable. The bad part of smoking tobacco is not the nicotine, it's all of the terrible health effects of inhaling smoke. Other than addiction nicotine has very few negative health effects.

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#214

Post by pochamago »

eridius wrote: post #169
zdragnar wrote: post #24

I'll never understand why lawmakers think that fruit and other flavorings for tobacco are aimed at getting kids hooked. It's almost like they think no adult has ever enjoyed fruit or candy, and that making teens smoke plain cigarettes will keep them from being rebellious. I've tried almost every variation of ecigarette mod out there except mechanical mods, because I'm not an idiot enough to know I'm too much of an id…

Adults like flavored nicotine too, but have you seen the ads? They're blatantly targeted at kids. Hell, I saw one once that showed a vape plugged into the USB port of a kid's laptop in class, where the advertising was basically saying your teacher won't know it's a vape.

I think you may have been tricked, I'm pretty sure there's no official Juul ad like that

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#215

Post by driverdan »

r00fus wrote: post #137
munk-a wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am happy that's worked out for you - and e-cigs are definitely less dangerous than conventional cigarettes, but the adoption rate of smoking among younger folks has spiked since flavoured e-cigs were introduced. I really want vapes to be available as an alternative to conventional smoking but the companies pushing them now are addicting a lot of new users, if the market participants were more responsible these devi…

I work with someone who's crusaded against e-cigs and part of the reason the ban was put in place was that JUUL was making kid-desired flavors like "candy corn" and "unicorn milk". E-cigs are essentially a very addictive substance (Nicotine) and a bunch of unregulated (and unreported) substances + flavor. They're also disguised as usb-keys and hard to detect (not like a cigarette). I'm sure SF lobbied with JUUL befor…

I know adults who vape and many like these flavors that you claim are marketed to kids. Just because kids like something doesn't mean adults don't like it too.

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#216

Post by function_seven »

munk-a wrote: post #200
qes wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the adoption rate of smoking among younger folks has spiked since flavoured e-cigs were introduced Are you calling vaping "smoking"? Because that would be disingenuous. Also you may as well just say "since e-cigs were introduced" since there was never a time that they weren't flavored.

I am calling it smoking, "vaping" is a euphemism that just recently entered the language in an effort to rebrand the action of smoking because being "a smoker" now has a negative connotation. "Smoking" has never been a literal description of that action - the literal description is "inhaling tobacco" which is still occurring. The fact that using e-cigarettes is viewed as a more healthy way for smokers to continue the…

There is no tobacco in the e-cigs. The inhalants are liquid droplets that are about 10 times larger than the smoke particles they replace. They do far less damage to the lungs, and deliver a tiny fraction of the carcinogens that smoking does.

Vaping isn't a euphemism. It's really a different thing altogether. In fact, I euphemize it back to "smoking" because I hate the term "vaping". It sounds so lame.

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#217

Post by thatswrong0 »

oarabbus_ wrote: post #149

So I can still buy a pack of cigarettes at any corner store - just not an e-cigarette? What the fuck, SF?

I can't help but think of San Francisco as a giant joke that can be used to make fun of liberals. "San Francisco first city to ban e-cigs, leaving cigarettes perfectly legal" reads like something from the Onion.

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#218

Post by munk-a »

driverdan wrote: post #212
munk-a wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am calling it smoking, "vaping" is a euphemism that just recently entered the language in an effort to rebrand the action of smoking because being "a smoker" now has a negative connotation. "Smoking" has never been a literal description of that action - the literal description is "inhaling tobacco" which is still occurring. The fact that using e-cigarettes is viewed as a more healthy way for smokers to continue the…

What are you talking about? Smoking is inhaling the smoke of a burned product. Vaping is not. It's not comparable. The bad part of smoking tobacco is not the nicotine, it's all of the terrible health effects of inhaling smoke. Other than addiction nicotine has very few negative health effects.

There are health effects of e-cigarettes aren't fully known but there are well known health risks associated with tobacco aside from the ash (which still can be present in mis-tuned vapes but is greatly reduced), see this other comment[1].

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20280258

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#219

Post by function_seven »

munk-a wrote: post #179
sundvor wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-smoker who can't stand the smell, and hate smoking with a passion, I for one would rather people vape all day. At least it's only affecting their health then. But yeah, banning all of it (with priority on getting rid of the real cigarettes that cause others' harm) in public spaces would be my preference.

It actually isn't, if their vape is mis-tuned and producing ash you're inhaling it the same as you would second hand smoke - additionally the health dangers of vape fluid aren't fully understood, a lot of the chemicals that contribute to the carcinogenous natural of tobacco smoking are still present in e-cigs but at generally lower levels. The misinformation that's going around is basically "No one has had time to co…

> if their vape is mis-tuned and producing ash

That's not a thing. Are you thinking of heated vaporization of tobacco leaf? Because what "vaping" is today is a liquid that's atomized by a heating element, not solid matter. There can't be ash from glycerin and propelyne glycol

Re: San Francisco Becomes First U.S. City to Pass an E-Cigarette Ban

#220

Post by driverdan »

slg wrote: post #55
llamataboot wrote: post #15

All prohibition is asinine but this has to take the cake. Even if there is no way to prevent more kids from getting addicted to vaping (and that's a big if), having less kids and many less adults smoking cigarettes is such a huge win for public health. -- Anecdotally I went from 2 packs a day to chain vaping for a few years, health improved enough to start being much more active, finally weaned down nicotine, quittin…

Would you support methadone being freely available over the counter? After all, it is a valuable tool in helping get people off more dangerous opioids.

Yes, absolutely. Along with anything else anyone wants to buy.
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