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Cities and Ambition

paulgraham.com

211–220 of 313 posts

Re: Cities and Ambition

#211
I really liked this. Most of my baseline thinking on ambition, social class and the like comes from Veblen and some assorted anthropological reading. From what I understand, it turns out that in every human society (that western anthropologists have studied & documented), there is an overt desire for (and so often competition over) social status. While wealth, power, ladies and fame are some of the most common types of social currency, they aren’t universal – in some cultures, you’re the man if you grow the biggest vegetables in town.

Each of the areas you pointed out each has its own status game rolling already. In my limited experience, San Francisco generally appreciates for “doing good”; my friends and I seem to treasure “creating value,” building things, and being constructive, but we all love our buddy who runs a nonprofit that works with inner city youth. He’s the man. My friends in NYC, on the other hand, don’t even try to justify shaving basis points with talk of serving the greater good by making markets more efficient.

One of the positive perspectives I draw from the status game is that if or when it’s incentivized correctly, things can (could?) get noble in a hurry. Lifeguards in San Diego and Hawaii get respect, as do firefighters and cops in New York and professors in Cambridge. The social esteem that these jobs convey helps to make up for the shitty hard currency they’re worth. Now we just have to translate the social currency of nobility into beachfront property for teachers.

Re: Cities and Ambition

#212
I tend to agree with those who believe that your immediate community of associates to have a much larger effect on your personal outlook than the defining characteristic of the your city of residence as a whole (although certainly each major city has one).

For example, I went to college at the University of Virginia, where the career prospects of most graduates reside in DC. As a programmer destined for DC, the message was loud and clear: "Be a defense contractor." For my friends who were not in engineering, the message was equally clear to them: "Be a lawyer."

But personally I never really cared much for success as defined through local conventions, mostly because I got bored too easily, so I spent half my college years as a cartoonist. Around the drawing board, the message I got was : "Be funny." Granted, our school is mostly known for successful lawyers and politicians, but we do have Tina Fey as well.

When I did hang out with the CS kids, it was almost exclusively with the computer graphics guys, and from them the message was: "Make photorealistic real-time applications." (As opposed to "Be a defense contractor.")

After graduation I moved to New York as a software engineer at a very large financial firm, and again I mostly managed to avoid the "Get rich" attitude prevalent in NYC by working with a small group of engaged CS folks some of whom were also start-up founders.

In none of the above situations was my local sub-group larger than a dozen individuals tops. Majority ambition can rarely ever suffocate sub-communities. The real danger is that a small community is vulnerable from disintegrating at any time. For example, all the previously mentioned clusters eventually dispersed, from graduation and corporate turnover and they are never immediately replaceable. In a place like Cambridge or Palo Alto, I suspect this would not be such a major risk.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: if your city's message as listed by pg is incompatible with what you want in life, don't freak out.

Re: Cities and Ambition

#213
post #107
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been to different places in the world but the same ideas popped into my head: Barcelona: Party naked but watch your backpack. Toronto: Buy land north of here. Amsterdam: There's no work done here at all. London: Next time, bring more money.

I must admit the descriptions you give for Amsterdam, London, Barcelona sound off to me. I think you have to live or spend a lot of time somewhere before you can understand it's 'message', if it has one

london "bring more money" - is spot on - damm that city is pricey.

Re: Cities and Ambition

#214
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"your best best is probably to try living in several places when you're young" I have, and here's what they've said to me: Pittsburgh: You should be nice. New Jersey: You should be in New York. Los Angeles: You should go outside. Phoenix: You should go inside. Detroit: You should be glad you have a good job. Tampa: You should buy a new pair of flip flops for dinner Saturday night.

"Pittsburgh: You should be nice." Being a native Western Pennsylvania, and living more of my adult life in Pittsburgh than anywhere else, I'll take that as a compliment :). I moved to NYC with my wife right after we were married, and loved every minute of it. But decided to return here to raise our kids after they were born. An interesting thing about Pittsburgh is the number of large non-profits of every kind, espec…

I lived in Pgh. for 6 years (7th-12th grade), and my family still lives there. That's a very good point about the cultural institutions -- though in my experience, they're woefully underattended. It's possible to hang out at the zoo, conservatory, science museum, etc. ...but my family was thought to be a bit odd for actually doing so. (Of course, we lived in the wealthy suburban soccer mom part, not the university-intellectual part, so that's probably why. Neighborhoods have messages, too.)

Re: Cities and Ambition

#215
post #69
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"your best best is probably to try living in several places when you're young" I have, and here's what they've said to me: Pittsburgh: You should be nice. New Jersey: You should be in New York. Los Angeles: You should go outside. Phoenix: You should go inside. Detroit: You should be glad you have a good job. Tampa: You should buy a new pair of flip flops for dinner Saturday night.

Places I've lived: Sydney: You should spend more money on real estate. Melbourne: You should spend more money on clothes. London: You should have been here 150 years ago. Davis, CA: You should leave Davis, CA.

Moscow: You should be rich, or Russian. Preferably both.

Re: Cities and Ambition

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Pittsburgh: You should be nice." Being a native Western Pennsylvania, and living more of my adult life in Pittsburgh than anywhere else, I'll take that as a compliment :). I moved to NYC with my wife right after we were married, and loved every minute of it. But decided to return here to raise our kids after they were born. An interesting thing about Pittsburgh is the number of large non-profits of every kind, espec…

I lived in Pgh. for 6 years (7th-12th grade), and my family still lives there. That's a very good point about the cultural institutions -- though in my experience, they're woefully underattended. It's possible to hang out at the zoo, conservatory, science museum, etc. ...but my family was thought to be a bit odd for actually doing so. (Of course, we lived in the wealthy suburban soccer mom part, not the university-in…

Heh, that's the advantage of our boys still being young (4 and 6 now, 2 and 4 when we first moved here). They don't know any better than to think those activities are perfectly normal. We have successfully brainwashed them so far, and by the time they hit teenage peer pressure, it might be too late to undo the "damage" of a cultured mind :).

The "under attended" part isn't all bad. Our boys can run around a little bit in Phipps Conservatory, for example, without many negative glances.

We do live in a city neighborhood, so that might account for some of the difference.

Re: Cities and Ambition

#217

It's not so much that you do whatever a city expects of you, but that you get discouraged when no one around you cares about the same things you do. I hear that. Trying to find an ambitious hacker in the middle of Connecticut to exchange ideas with is an awful experience. People here are so... content with the way things are. Content, numb and detached.

Well, I sometimes live (summer, mostly) in mid-Connecticut (Westbrook) at our old house there, and I've been called a hacker; not sure how ambitious...

Re: Cities and Ambition

#218
post #155

Duuude, Mister Graham, I've never even heard of this Cambridge, and I seriously doubt it is the intellectual capital of the world. And you know what - you are not qualified to judge. You've not been to Urumuqi, Jenin, Port Harcourt or Bahia, how can you make a judgement based on having been in two cities? And furthermore, I take offense at the suggestion that American universities produce the best students. In genera…

You are mistaken in concluding that "normal" people shape a city. The traits that make a city unique are the result of the actions of a minority of its inhabitants. If your "logic" were accurate, Los Angeles would be no different than Tijuana, for example, considering that most of the "normal" people there are lower class Mexican immigrants. Allow me to inform you of something essential about PG's essays: they requir…

Ooooohh - cute downmodding . . . I think this is the last time I post to this board, the modding fascism is MUCH too High School for me.

Re: Cities and Ambition

#219
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish the spirit of Boston were anything so romantic as "old money rules." Actually there are hardly any of those people left. The Thurston Howells have all died, and their trustafarian kids have long since moved to Berkeley or Boulder. Except for Cambridge, Boston doesn't send any message at all that I can pick up.

The message I get from Boston is "know your history". Pretty much every block has a centuries-old story behind it, and someone there who wants you to know what that story is. I don't think it's a coincidence that the National Genealogical Society is headquartered there.

You should come to Germany. We have a lot of history if not much else in the east.

Johann Sebastian Bach lived around there.

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