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Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

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Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#211

Post by oblio »

Bombthecat wrote: post #102
jaabe wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Denmark where I live you can loan 1 million Danish kroner at around 5k each month. A decent downtown apartment in a bigger city or a house in the suburbs is 2-4 million. Renting the equivalent is 10-15k, and with renting you obviously skip a lot of the maintenance cost and taxes. On the flip side loans are tax-deductible, meaning you actually don’t pay 20k to borrow 4 million, you pay 12k. It can still be cheaper…

I doubt that the house would be 4 million. Thanks to reducing population, increased building and housing. Plus who knows how the weather will be, I'm not sure that owning a house is the right thing in 20 years.

Denmark's population went up by more than 15% in the past 30 years, FYI :)

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#212

Post by ghaff »

pjc50 wrote: post #182
grecy wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep it if it brings you happiness, after all, that's the point. It's the rest of the stuff that can go. I helped a friend move last month. After we'd been to the 5 places she kept her stuff, we discovered she had 5 coffee machines, 5 cutting boards, 5 juicers, etc. etc. The things you describe make you happier and are not stuff. The things I described are just stuff.

> 5 places she kept her stuff Storage unit rental, now that's a means of preying on people who can't let go and/or move often. (It strikes me that there might be startup value in "home inventory management", although it would have to be made as frictionless as possible - wave a camera round your kitchen, inside all the cupboards, get a list of everything you own. Snoop your Amazon webpages so it can remind you not to…

Fortunately(?) I have a fair bit of storage space at home. It's definitely a battle to pull out and get rid of stuff in storage after I haven't looked or used it for a few years. It's really tempting to throw things in storage rather than make the decision to get rid of them--especially when there's some effort associated with disposing of an item.

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#213

Post by buboard »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #157

I have thought about this lately because my wife and I moved to Illinois so I could accept a job managing a machine learning team. I retired and now we are just now moving back to Arizona. I spent five hours yesterday watching our stuff being wrapped and put on a truck. Lots of possessions. The thing is, I have some stuff that I really like. A teak bookcase I bought in the 1970s when I got my first real job after fin…

But if you never own them in the first place, they become forgettable. Sounds like future cities will have less of that

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#214

Post by tom_ »

suff wrote: post #199
Dumblydorr wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specifics, specifics. The rent vs buy debate will not be answered with finality, it always comes down to specifics. You're wrong about renting, I save a lot and invest much of it, while renting.

Have you ever gotten a six figure check when you move out? Happens to buyers all the time.

I think it's more likely to happen to the seller.

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#215

Post by dsfyu404ed »

lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #192
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because Austin (and Denver and Seattle for that matter) are basically SF Lite. Pick any city that isn't having it's housing market turned upside down by California monopoly money (well, tech monopoly money) and you statement does not apply.

>Pick a city where there aren't many jobs, there isn't much to do, and young people aren't interested in moving their and my antiquated ideas about what the housing market should look like hold. FTFY I suspect people, especially people considering buying their first home, have a specific profile of locations that behave in this new way because of that interest.

There are cities up and down the east coast and throughout the Midwest that have plenty of jobs and stuff to do. The only thing they don't have is a freight train full of tech startups barreling out of control down a mountain while VCs shovel more coal into the boiler.

Basically just strike SF, NYC, Boston and Seattle of your list. Then strike off every city that lots of people from SF, NYC, Boston and Seattle are cashing out their inflated home values and moving to to raise their families off your list. The US is a big country. You're left with a very long list.

My sample size is <10 but 100% of the first time home buyers I know opted for a 2nd tier city or an exurb that's just barely within commuting range of wherever the big fat salaries are. The nature of the city other than physical location had approximately nothing to do with it. The techies who can drop a quarter mil on a 800ft^2 condo that's within biking distance of work and walking distance of a bunch of overpriced bars are in the minority and not indicative of overall trends. Take your narrow world view and even narrower assumptions of what young people want and shove it somewhere.

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#216

Post by madengr »

refurb wrote: post #208
dingaling wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Finally, one can use the savings from paying rent What savings? Rent as you stated already includes anticipated maintenance costs, property taxes, the landlord's mortgage costs, often an agency fee, plus a margin for the landlord. I don't think I've seen rental rates ever cheaper than a personal mortgage. The main advantage of renting is avoiding long-term commitment but you'll pay a premium for that flexibility. O…

Renting is absolutely cheaper in some cities, San Francisco included. Just look at the rent to price ratio. A ratio of 15 is breakeven, anything higher means it’s cheaper to rent. SF is in the high 20s. The rental market and housing market are two separate markets. Just because it costs $X to own a home doesn’t mean rent has to be $X or higher.

Well they typically don’t make 500 ft^2 homes for $1M, but you can find 500 ft^2 apartments for $3k/month. I think a house has a minimum size, thus a minimum price over that of rent.

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#217

Post by ahje »

jaabe wrote: post #155
ahje wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I lived on Amager about six years ago, the prices were definitely around the 3-4 million mark in the suburbs. Prices fell somewhat once you got out of Copenhagen, but it was still ludicrously expensive. Are you saying the prices droppped sharply the last 5-6 years?

No. But I probably should have been more clear. I mean, first of all, there are more cities than Copenhagen. I have a 3 room 92m^2 apartment that is 15 minute walking distance from Aarhus H that cost us 2.2 million. Secondly, I’d personally call a place like Valby “downtown” Copenhagen even though it would probably be more correct to label it surburbia like you do.

I wouldn't call Valby suburbia, although it'd definitely a suburb. The real Copenhagen suburbian hell start out at Kastrup, Glostrup, Ballerup, Lyngby and thereabouts.

Of course, there are other Danish cities than Copenhagen, and prices do vary. The parent comment I replied to simply stated that there are no 4M DKK houses, which simply isn't true.

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#218

Post by ahje »

jbarberu wrote: post #193
roland35 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is interesting loans are tax deductible in Denmark, I always thought that was just a US thing! From my understanding of the new federal tax law though, the higher standard deduction makes the mortgage tax credit less feasible for most people.

Nah, it's the same in Sweden :)

Ditto in Finland. Nordic thing I guess?

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#219

Post by dagw »

jbarberu wrote: post #193
roland35 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is interesting loans are tax deductible in Denmark, I always thought that was just a US thing! From my understanding of the new federal tax law though, the higher standard deduction makes the mortgage tax credit less feasible for most people.

Nah, it's the same in Sweden :)

Only 30% of your loan costs are deductible in Sweden.

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#220

Post by kaybe »

gtsteve wrote: post #135
dingaling wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Finally, one can use the savings from paying rent What savings? Rent as you stated already includes anticipated maintenance costs, property taxes, the landlord's mortgage costs, often an agency fee, plus a margin for the landlord. I don't think I've seen rental rates ever cheaper than a personal mortgage. The main advantage of renting is avoiding long-term commitment but you'll pay a premium for that flexibility. O…

I live in the UK. It's cheaper to buy than rent almost everywhere but I never minded that. The main thing that moved me to buy was because the protection for renters is nowhere near as good. I moved on average every 18 months for 10 years because the landlord decided they wanted to sell the place or just wanted me out so they could increase the rent. One landlord didn't even bother with that and just asked if I'd be…

I live in Germany. We have crazy-strong renter protection.

You cannot evict people because you want to sell (the new owner is your new landlord) or because you want to increase the rent. Unless you do something really wrong (like break things on purpose) you cannot be evicted.

About the only time to get rid of tenants is when you want to move in yourself, and then there is a longer protection time (3-9 months depending on the time you lived there). (Or I guess you can pay the renters to move out which I've seen sometimes.)

The rent can only be increased up to 15-20% in 3 years (without amenities), and can only be increased every 15 months. If you do renovations that improve the place you can demand 8% of the costs per year, but only up to 3€/sqm (or 2€/sqm if the place was cheap).

Still, prices in the cities have been going up a lot in the last few years (you can increase the rent when new tenants move in), but the prices to buy have gone up even more.

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