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Relicensing CockroachDB

cockroachlabs.com

211–220 of 290 posts

Re: Relicensing CockroachDB

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imo the key difference here is that they're owning the decision and not trying to paper over the fact that it is no longer OSI Open Source. The three year change is also a big deal in my mind. Would make me a lot more comfortable to adopt knowing it is absolutely guaranteed to become OSI Open Source later.

My point is that they are able to own the decision only because the public opinion has accepted it as a new reality. If CockroachDB was the first OSS database company to do this, they would have a much harder time explaining their rationale. MongoDB et al have paved the way for them.

Completely agree.

Cockroach also have the benefit of hindsight to avoid some of the problems Mongo/Redis et al encountered.

Calling this a "Business Source Licence" avoids the terminology problems so many people complained about with Mongo's perhaps badly chosen "commons clause" rider on top of (and fundamentally changing) a well know open source license.

I think the rolling three year time limit is probably a smart reaction to some of the complaints people have about other companies attempts to tie down some of the rights while providing assurance that there's at least be an option open in the future no matter what happens to the company.

I wish them well with this.

Re: Relicensing CockroachDB

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imo the key difference here is that they're owning the decision and not trying to paper over the fact that it is no longer OSI Open Source. The three year change is also a big deal in my mind. Would make me a lot more comfortable to adopt knowing it is absolutely guaranteed to become OSI Open Source later.

I don't like the change but I understand their point of view. It's also commendable how Cockroack Labs has conducted this in a professional manner.

Could you expand of what it is you don't like about this change?

Without having read and fully understood the actual text of their new license and comparing it to the old one, if we take them at their word where they say "The one and only thing that you cannot do is offer a commercial version of CockroachDB as a service without buying a license." - I find it pretty hard to find anything to "not like" about it... Perhaps the ideological purity of "open source" is being disrupted here (I suspect Stallman isn't a fan of this), but from a pragmatic perspective, it gives me all the rights I need to use it in any way I choose, except to exploit project without contributing back via a license.

Re: Relicensing CockroachDB

#213
Couple questions:

1) Is CockroachDB actually popular? Like sure they have a couple big users, but is it gaining traction?

2) Would it be as popular as it is if they'd started with this license from the very start?

Re: Relicensing CockroachDB

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the hosted service going to have the global network of data centers that the generic cloud provider has? What are the chances that the unprofitable maintainer is going to stay in business? If they are acquired, what are the chances that the acquirer is going to run the service well and not just kill it? Seeing that neither Redis Labs nor Mongo are profitable, they haven’t quite “figured it out.”

They're offerings run on the same clouds, often within your own cloud account or peered to it. They're providing a managed version of their software product, not building a cloud from scratch. Vendor management is a different issue. There's always a risk but if you cant trust any companies smaller than AWS then none of this applies anyway.

Redis labs doesn’t run on all regions / cloud providers sadly. I’ve asked (begged) them to support GCE in Europe for a while now... even not all AWS regions are supported as far as I’m aware.

Re: Relicensing CockroachDB

#215

I'm curious about the legal process of relicensing. Did they have significant open source contributors from outsiders? If so, did they have copyright assignment? And if not, then how valuable is it to them to be open source in the first place? (Not trying to cause trouble; I admire Cockroach DB and its founders greatly! But I've watched open source struggle with this kind of thing for 20+ years and am increasingly cu…

If community patches are licensed under MIT or BSD, all CockroachDB has to do is include those license texts in their proprietary distribution, which is the only requirement by both licenses. Proprietary derivative works are allowed under MIT and BSD.

Re: Relicensing CockroachDB

#216

I really like this company, and their developers. Solid tech vision and the actual tech chops to pull it off. I don't like the drama that seems to surround it. This post is just one more vote in the "this company has a lot of drama associated with it", and that to me is always a giant blinking warning sign. Without knowing anything about them (though I do), at this point, I would bet this company flames out eventuall…

[deleted]

Re: Relicensing CockroachDB

#217
post #50

I’m still not sure why people open source great products then get outraged that someone else would simply resell the product and make money off of it, possibly even more than them. When I put something out as open source, I’m doing it fully aware that I am leaving money on the table, but it will be worth it if a community of maintainers springs up around the project and ends up making it far better and more useful th…

Does that mean we shouldn't revisit our decisions and all your decisions should be set in stone? CockroachDB tried something. It seems to not be working- so they are changing. It's not as if they are doing it retroactively.

>It's not as if they are doing it retroactively.

You can't do this retroactively.

Re: Relicensing CockroachDB

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, that sounds like an excuse. The APIs are all public. The company can build whatever integrations they want to offer. For example, many already use EC2, VPCs, S3, Lambda, Kinesis, etc. to extend their databases into a client's architecture, and it's no different than what AWS provides.

But you're essentially saying if you want to compete with AWS, you have to offer every feature and integration they offer. Good luck to any startup attempting that.

AWS doesn't really offer that much between all their products and those integrations are all done over public APIs anyway. Many of the new features they release are just automating away things that people previous hooked up themselves.

I don't see why a startup would have such a problem with it, especially when they control the software as well.

Re: Relicensing CockroachDB

#219
Can outside contributors to CockroachDB get a cut of the licensing revenue? I mean, if cockroachlabs is upset that people are taking their open source code and making money without giving them a cut, should they also be upset that they are taking people's open source contributions to that code and not giving them a cut?

Re: Relicensing CockroachDB

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're offerings run on the same clouds, often within your own cloud account or peered to it. They're providing a managed version of their software product, not building a cloud from scratch. Vendor management is a different issue. There's always a risk but if you cant trust any companies smaller than AWS then none of this applies anyway.

Redis labs doesn’t run on all regions / cloud providers sadly. I’ve asked (begged) them to support GCE in Europe for a while now... even not all AWS regions are supported as far as I’m aware.

Yes, and they're one of the better vendors, which shows how bad vendors are at managed services.
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