Stripe Chargeback Protection • Hacker News Board

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#211

Post by ijidak » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 4:11 AM UTC

Meekro wrote: post #140

ijidak wrote: post #108

This is huge! Our business sales registrations to educational events for a specific industry. We use Stripe to process. We have a strict non-refundable policy on ticket deposits because, otherwise, we can't determine how many seats are left for each event and we lose the revenue on that empty seat. We often get unscrupulous customers who claim they don't recognize the charge because they decided not to attend in the…

Have you looked into 3D secure? Stripe already offers it[1], no fees, and it mitigates liability quite a bit. Lots of business owners here probably can't use it because they do recurring billing, but it sounds like it'd be perfect for you. "Should a 3D Secure payment be disputed as fraudulent by the cardholder, the liability shifts from you to the card issuer. These types of disputes are handled internally, do not ap…

Interesting. Thank you for the suggestion.

Just took a look at 3D Sure. My only concern would be the drop in conversions.

I wonder what the typical drop in conversions is with this enabled.

I have a sense it could be high single digits to low double-digits (e.g. 7-11%).

In which case, that would cost quite a bit more.

I did see there is a way to trigger this as needed.

Hmmm...If we could figure out a way to identify high risk individuals in advance, that might mitigate the drop in conversion.

Hmmm... Maybe a fun machine learning side project.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#212

Post by JamesBarney » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 6:14 AM UTC

gist wrote: post #139

eeke wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can send you a webhook on every dispute being created ( https://stripe.com/docs/webhooks ) and you could use the API to either refund the underlying charge or accept the dispute (and refund the underlying charge). We can also give you access to receiving early fraud warnings from issuers (like Visa TC40s). These are notifications from the issuers that the customer is likely going to dispute a charge. If you're hap…

Is it possible to have the extra fee (.4%) only on some transactions or does it have to be applied to the entire account? For example in what we do we have very large transactions where we know the customer very well and we don't need this. But other transactions are typically small but more importantly they are of a different type where the risk of fraud is much higher and the protection is warranted. Just wondering…

I think this request is like going to a $60/month gym and asking to only pay 2$ when for days you go the gym because you only use it 10 times a month. The .4% on good transactions is subsidizing the shitty transactions.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#213

Post by nathan92 » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 11:01 AM UTC

jasonkester wrote: post #10

But this isn't the product I want. I don't want to ever fight chargebacks. Because my policy is to never take money from people who don't want to give it to me. I want to automatically refund every chargeback attempt without it affecting my ability to charge credit cards. One of my businesses targets consumers, who have this amazing ability to "forget to cancel" or to have "cancelled 3 months ago, but for some reason…

If Stripe cant do this for you then I know a way you can. Give me a shout on nathan.watkins@axcessms.com

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#214

Post by czzarr » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 12:10 PM UTC

csa wrote: post #64

czzarr wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

0.4% is an extremely steep price for a company like mine doing over $2.5m in annual turnover (saas) which has a very low fraud rate. I actually think currently we pay less than that by doing nothing (meaning letting Paypal handle it, and losing every case). However I'd gladly pay a few thousands per year for it, or be able to pay it on selected transactions (only US for instance).

> However I'd gladly pay a few thousands per year for it 0.4% on $2.5m is $10k a year. I realize "ten" is a bit more than "a few", but is Stripe's price point materially that far off from where you want it to be? Said another way, I imagine that there are at least a few problems smaller than chargeback protection at your company that you throw $10k or more at just to make that problem go away... right? If so, this ma…

welp I'm ashamed, my mental math was off by one zero, and I thought I was going to pay 100k/year. At 10k I'll buy without thinking about it.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#215

Post by ricberw » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 2:14 PM UTC

Gosh, I’d love to use this for accepting cards for our $29k device, but the limit in the US is $25k in protection for the entire year.

We offer a hardware product with SAAS after purchase, and we have dozens of customers insist on paying for that hardware with a credit card (albeit we won’t accept one now because of the inherent risks of accepting a card).

If the limit was much higher, I’d be sold, and our volume with Stripe could go up by $1m/year.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#216

Post by amirhirsch » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 4:09 PM UTC

nickjj wrote: post #206

amirhirsch wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sell a physical product on a Shopify store. Charge-backs cost me $8000 out of >$3,000,000 revenue (14 orders out of 11362). At least one of them (totaling $2000) I should have known was fraudulent because I even asked for photo ID confirmation and received a scan of a print-out which I didn't check well enough. I simply started to require PayPal for international customers instead of Stripe checkout and that reduce…

Thanks for sharing real numbers. So you would have paid $12,000 to Stripe for charge back insurance, which is double what you really paid (well, it's not double since you really paid 8k, but from the sounds of it that 2k loss could have likely been prevented with a more careful background check which makes it a 6k loss). Question: would you pay that extra $4,000 to $6,000 to never have to deal with charge backs again…

No. I evaluated Signifyd and the truth is that it wasn't worth it economically or from a "never have to deal with charge backs" perspective, because I still have to deal with the operational errors that cause most of my charge-backs.

When you sell a physical product, usually you get "friendly" charge-backs because the customer didn't receive the product. This means something is wrong with your logistics like a package went missing or didn't get sent out. Often you also missed the messages from the customer wondering where the order went---saying they will contact their credit card company if they don't hear back from you. So you can't just not deal with that.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#217

Post by dennisgorelik » Tue, Jun 04, 2019, 4:29 PM UTC

ascar wrote: post #85

eeke wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Card issuers are often able to detect that a transaction is fraudulent before it is disputed, and when this happens, they will send us a notification. These notifications are commonly called TC40s (Visa) or SAFE reports (MasterCard). On average ~60% of early fraud warnings end up being disputed, and most disputes have an early fraud warning (though there’s a wide range depending on your business). If you refund these…

You are proposing he should also proactively refund the other ~40% of valid purchases to avoid the ~60% that end up in disputes? Did I get that right? If yes, that doesn't sound like a viable idea.

"the other ~40%" -- are NOT necessarily valid purchases. Most likely they are fraudulent purchases that were not charged back.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#218

Post by shamir » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 1:35 PM UTC

the_shalashaska wrote: post #131

jasonkester wrote: post #10

But this isn't the product I want. I don't want to ever fight chargebacks. Because my policy is to never take money from people who don't want to give it to me. I want to automatically refund every chargeback attempt without it affecting my ability to charge credit cards. One of my businesses targets consumers, who have this amazing ability to "forget to cancel" or to have "cancelled 3 months ago, but for some reason…

But, this is the product I want, because I sell high end used luxury watches, and chargebacks are the biggest PITA and one of the hindrances to profitable growth in that sector. Losing out on a large chunk of a $15k transaction because the buyer thinks the condition of the watch is "not as described" (where in reality, they know this is an easy way to scrape a huge discount on their purchase because the criteria is s…

Would you be willing to offer a discount, say 5%, to customers who made an irrevocable payment? No chargebacks guaranteed.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#219

Post by johnsmitty » Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 3:14 AM UTC

Why limit this to Checkout? Checkout seems limited and resides on Stripe's servers. Who wants to be redirected from a secure website to another domain??? Outside of web savvy people, nobody has ever heard of Stripe.com.