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Google’s Chrome Becomes Web ‘Gatekeeper’ and Rivals Complain

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Re: Google’s Chrome Becomes Web ‘Gatekeeper’ and Rivals Complain

#211
post #68
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has this course of action ever actually worked? I can't say US telecoms are a great example of competition. I'm not anti-regulation but it seems like simply enforcing open standards might be more effective.

I hope your joking because US Telcos are the result of a monopoly broken up (AT&T). And even then it's not the healthiest telco market due to the rise of local monopolies and market entrenchment.

You should reread my post more carefully. That is my point exactly. Clearly, I'm aware of the history or I wouldn't have brought up telecos. My point is breaking up a monopoly is not a panacea as you can see.

Re: Google’s Chrome Becomes Web ‘Gatekeeper’ and Rivals Complain

#212

Google is a clear monopoly, there's no doubt about it. It has a 70% browser market share, 70% market share in the search ecosystem. Even though their service is good and people are happy, I think they need to be broken down for the sake of keeping an open internet. Even Facebook for that matter. That's my opinion

AdWords and other Google platforms have more reach than that, even Microsoft serves up Adsense ads on MSN. Analytics is so heavily tied to AdWords, it's practically impossible to run an effective campaign without it. I'm more concerned about the advertising market Google has a strangle on. Analytics is everywhere, they have so much behavioral data that everyone pales in comparison, and no one can give as much insight into the ad market.

Re: Google’s Chrome Becomes Web ‘Gatekeeper’ and Rivals Complain

#213
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the time they made those choices there were 3 main reasons to choose chromium over FF as a base 1. Smaller Size, chromium was just a smaller foot print with less legacy code 2. Better Performance. There was no doubt the before firefox quantum Chromium was the performance leader, Bink and V8 where superior then, today not soo much 3. Better rendering support. Like IE6 in the 90's today there are many many sites tha…

More relevant: better embedding story. Gecko is not exactly great to embed.

No idea why you're downvoted: things like [0] are marked as obsolete, GtkMozEmbed et al. are basically dead, and there's no viable alternatives except when you use Android [1]. The only option is to dive deep into Thunderbird's mess of a source code and learn things the hard way, hoping Mozilla will not change things a lot in a road to post-Quantum future.

[0] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Gecko/Embed... [1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/GeckoView

Re: Google’s Chrome Becomes Web ‘Gatekeeper’ and Rivals Complain

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you search for Firefox, Google says "did you mean Chrome?" Edited to add: This has actually happened to me when setting up a new Windows PC for someone.

Just tried searching for 'firefox' as a quick test. I do get a page of Firefox results, but I also get a box titled 'People also ask' after the first four results, with the very first item being; 'Is Mozilla Firefox Safe to Download?' I also get a box at the bottom of the page titled 'Web Browsers,' with the first item in that box being Chrome. And Firefox is just not in that box at all. Not a popular enough web brow…

> And Firefox is just not in that box at all.

If you search for Chrome, Chrome will not show up in that box either. And the first browser in that box is, guess what, Firefox. You just searched for it, why include it in the box?

UC Browser is pretty popular in Asia. Statcounter reports 3% market share worldwide, right between Samsung Internet and IE.

Re: Google’s Chrome Becomes Web ‘Gatekeeper’ and Rivals Complain

#215
post #46

Google is a clear monopoly, there's no doubt about it. It has a 70% browser market share, 70% market share in the search ecosystem. Even though their service is good and people are happy, I think they need to be broken down for the sake of keeping an open internet. Even Facebook for that matter. That's my opinion

I don't know what you can do about browsers besides use Firefox. But as far as other stuff, I hope people will give distributed p2p possibilities some consideration in terms of usage or development. For example YaCy works pretty well as a p2p search engine. There are some others that I haven't tried. Back to the browser stuff. The problem is the browser has a full operating system in it at this point. There are too m…

I've been putting some design work into a minimalist browser like you describe, but starting from a different angle, namely starting with javascript as a first-class citizen, and a React-style virtual DOM as the rendering model. Javascript (or, I could be convinced, web assembly) is the primary interaction model with the browser, with HTML and CSS supported via polyfills.

The additional HTML5 suite of APIs would theoretically be supported by a plugin model, but given the depth of integration of some of the APIs, this might be a great deal more work than it sounds, and even more difficult to prevent the proliferation of questionable plugins to this backend. It would probably have to resemble something closer to the Linux distribution model; where an installed instance of the browser would come with a set of whitelisted plugins, with no real ability for the non-expert user to add plugins.

More important to me is the idea of making use of client certificates to attest identity more strongly, together with masking the use of those certificates over third-party channels. So if I went to facebook.com I would present a cert "abcd" (a self-signed certificate), and if I went to yelp.com I would present "bcde". If yelp loaded content from facebook.com, I would present "cdef". Similarly for cookie handling, at least initially.

My hope would be that websites would associate multiple client certs with a given "user" on their site, but unless the user explicitly associates a cert with an identity there's no way (outside of fingerprinting, etc.) to make that association; all third-party interactions show as incognito sessions. Eventually the goal would be that (if this technique is widely adopted) that cookies become kind of useless in favor of strongly attested server-side identity (rather than using bearer tokens in the form of cookies) that can be associated with session data.

Re: Google’s Chrome Becomes Web ‘Gatekeeper’ and Rivals Complain

#216
post #5

In the case of Chrome, you can't blame Google. They made a good browser, did some marketing and it got popular. However the current situation is worrisome, because alternative implementations are dying and in the case of the web, diversity is important. Both Opera and Microsoft's Edge are now powered by Chromium. Chromium is a project controlled by Google. Its redeeming quality, in terms of its open source nature, is…

Microsoft has the resources to fork Chromium if necessary, much like Google forked WebKit (after sending patches upstream for a while) and Apple forked KHTML. This is just how open source works and isn't a problem in itself.

By doing this, Microsoft gets compatibility with the world's websites on day one, and they can take it from there. It's a smart move that many people seem to be misinterpreting.

Re: Google’s Chrome Becomes Web ‘Gatekeeper’ and Rivals Complain

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the beginning, Chrome was bundled with Flash, and Flash was ubiquitous. When you installed or upgraded Flash, unless you checked a checkbox, Chrome would be installed.

Funny how all it took was Steve Jobs saying "no Flash on the IPhone, it sucks" and that was the end of Flash. Thank God.

I wouldn't cheer some influential millionaire who decide it's time to kill some technology too loud. It may become a habit.

Re: Google’s Chrome Becomes Web ‘Gatekeeper’ and Rivals Complain

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" They made a good browser, did some marketing and it got popular. " They did make a good browser. However, their market share is not down to better browser or "some advertising." They use their other assets (search, youtube, android, docs..) to make chrome the "default" option. It's a dominance breeds dominance cycle... a hallmark of modern monopoly. Chrome wouldn't have gotten anywhere if it wasn't a very good brow…

My personal experience is not what you are advertising here. I like Chrome because of the features unrelated to performance on Google's own assets - it simply has been the better browser. Yubikey support. Enterprise management capabilities. A robust extension ecosystem. Security. Better memory management for multiple tabs. Some of these are no longer a differentiator for Chrome, but Chrome got there first. Firefox, I…

Oh yes, Yubikey support. Which Firefox also supports but The Almighty Google doesn't allow to use with Yubikey on their sites (same as Facebook etc.). Good job Google, that really motivated me to switch. (not)

Re: Google’s Chrome Becomes Web ‘Gatekeeper’ and Rivals Complain

#219
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just tried searching for 'firefox' as a quick test. I do get a page of Firefox results, but I also get a box titled 'People also ask' after the first four results, with the very first item being; 'Is Mozilla Firefox Safe to Download?' I also get a box at the bottom of the page titled 'Web Browsers,' with the first item in that box being Chrome. And Firefox is just not in that box at all. Not a popular enough web brow…

> And Firefox is just not in that box at all. If you search for Chrome, Chrome will not show up in that box either. And the first browser in that box is, guess what, Firefox. You just searched for it, why include it in the box? UC Browser is pretty popular in Asia. Statcounter reports 3% market share worldwide, right between Samsung Internet and IE.

>If you search for Chrome, Chrome will not show up in that box either. And the first browser in that box is, guess what, Firefox. You just searched for it, why include it in the box?

Oh, good catch, you are right. Is just a bad title for the box and does not appear to be in any way nefarious. 'Other Web Browsers' would be a lot less confusing.

Am still cocking an eyebrow at 'Is Mozilla Firefox Safe to Download?' though.

Re: Google’s Chrome Becomes Web ‘Gatekeeper’ and Rivals Complain

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you search for Firefox, Google says "did you mean Chrome?" Edited to add: This has actually happened to me when setting up a new Windows PC for someone.

Just tried searching for 'firefox' as a quick test. I do get a page of Firefox results, but I also get a box titled 'People also ask' after the first four results, with the very first item being; 'Is Mozilla Firefox Safe to Download?' I also get a box at the bottom of the page titled 'Web Browsers,' with the first item in that box being Chrome. And Firefox is just not in that box at all. Not a popular enough web brow…

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