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I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

idiallo.com

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Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#211

Post by dimnsionofsound »

llamataboot wrote: post #204
himynameisdom wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is misguided anger at best, and trolling at worst. What were you hoping to achieve with this?

Oh, it was perhaps some cathartic snark that doesn't add much to the overall discussion, but considering that the majority of comments on articles like these tend to be made up of people glorifying such income, talking about why such income isn't enough, hoping to someday have such an income, or otherwise somehow on the hedonic treadmill that makes programmers some of the wealthiest workers that have ever existed on…

I appreciated your original comment for the reasons you listed in this one. +1

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#212

Post by LeonM »

derefr wrote: post #200
rocky1138 wrote: post #10

This is how corporate works. They have budgets for things. The money doesn't come out of the pocket of the person who cuts the cheque. You send in an invoice and it gets paid. If it doesn't, the company is insolvent or they are at risk to lawsuits which will cost them more than your paltry $18000. But they don't even think about the lawsuit part. Bill comes in, cheque goes out.

How do they prevent paying random people who decide it'd be funny to send them an invoice?

This is actually a really big problem called invoice fraud. Many companies struggle in setting up some workable system to prevent it.

The problem usually is that someone at the accounts payable department (sometimes in a different building or country) must pay all the hundreds or thousands of incoming invoices. Having a robust system in place for them to check if the product/service is actually delivered for the price agreed upon (or even delivered at all) is hard.

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#213

Post by IronWolve »

Back in the 90's, I got a buddy hired at my work, and typically all co-workers come through a contracting agency. Work hired him as a direct contractor without the agency BUT at agency rates. He did his 90 day contractor probation period and then hired directly.

After he left the company years later, he told us the story of the 175 hourly rate they gave him for 3 months, instead of 25 for a junior admin.

Good times.

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#214

Post by mywittyname »

peteradio wrote: post #73
sharkweek wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big companies (rather, people at big companies) WANT to spend money on this kind of stuff for all sorts of reasons. -A team might have use-it-or-lose-it budget, so they have to spend it on something, and a contractor might be the lucky recipient! -Tax purposes! -Spending a lot on a contractor gives them someone to "fire" when they need to explain why something wasn't getting done or something went poorly! The list go…

Unless you are getting taxed >100% I never understood why you'd want to throw away money for "tax reasons". Can someone please help me understand this, it always comes up and I feel dumb for not understanding.

They may have a tax rebate which requires them to "invest" $x each year and failure to do so will result in penalties, perhaps nullifying the agreement and requirement to reimburse previous rebates.

So the company hires a few contractors to help get them as close to $x as possible, but they don't really have any work for them to do.

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#215

Post by ghaff »

alasdair_ wrote: post #182
peteradio wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you are getting taxed >100% I never understood why you'd want to throw away money for "tax reasons". Can someone please help me understand this, it always comes up and I feel dumb for not understanding.

Simple example: My FSA card is pre-tax money to be used for healthcare expenses. Towards the end of the year, I ended up still having a balance that would go away if not used, so I bought things that I would not have otherwise purchased.

That's a bit different. You're effectively getting "taxed" 100% on whatever is left over so you might as well spend the money on anything that has non-zero value to you.

But if you, say, only lost 30% or 50% of the balance, it's not immediately obvious if you should spend the balance or not.

OT but this is such a weird aspect of FSAs. I can carry some amount over with my plan which makes things a lot easier.

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#216

Post by gk1 »

himynameisdom wrote: post #110
gk1 wrote: post #71

Great illustration of why hourly billing makes no sense, for either side. In this case, as usual, the amount of hours "spent" on the project has little to do with actual value provided. From the contractor's side, he's excited about getting 12x the original quote, instead of realizing he's been severely undercharging for his work and could've been earning 10x or more all this time. I wonder if the author will start c…

GK, I remember your presence on that thread. For those who were not there, it's under comment history. You spoke to the point of people needing your help (and not just anybody), which is kind of ridiculous in this case and the case from last week. You're opining value-driven fixed rate wisdom on a thread about a simple HTML page. If you dictate the pace of a specialty, of course you can charge whatever you want and c…

As I said somewhere in that thread, I only ever encounter arguments against value-based billing from other contractors/consultants, and not companies. There's probably a psychological topic there to explore but I won't go there. I have nothing to gain by convincing other contractors/consultants, except the feeling that I helped someone escape the hell that is hourly billing.

Yes, it helps to be offering some unique value that can't just be found on Upwork (see excellent posts on this [1] and [2]), but you don't need to be in the 99th percentile to do value-based billing.

I don't know much about the author but they're probably in that 99% whose work you think is commoditized (or at an equilibrium). Clearly this is not true, since they were paid $21k for work that could've been done by a large portion of that 99%.

[1] https://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-pr...

[2] https://tomcritchlow.com/2019/04/04/the-strategic-independen...

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#217

Post by crispyambulance »

stronglikedan wrote: post #201
crispyambulance wrote: post #178

My parents had been running their own tailor shop in the 80's, barely making ends meet, pulling in less than $20K a year. It wasn't for lack of business, father was a master tailor trained in Italy and capable of elite bespoke craftsmanship. They had as much business as they could handle. The problem was that they were charging what they thought the work was worth rather than what their customers were willing to pay.…

But also, charge accordingly, if you don't have to post your prices (as your parents probably did). A lawyer is likely willing to pay a lot more for the same website than a tailor shop, and I'll gladly take both of their money.

Yes, "charge accordingly" means different things to different customers.

My parents never advertised their tailor shop, it was all "word-of-mouth" business. After the pricing jack-up, every customer got charged what my mother felt they could pay (with a very loose regard for consistency and some allowance for negotiation).

I used to think that was sketchy. It wasn't until much later that I realized that B2B enterprise sales people do that stuff ALL THE TIME even with their onerous kpi's, forecasting and fiscal quarter expectations!

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#219

Post by ThePadawan »

solotronics wrote: post #136
osrec wrote: post #12

You should try working in an investment bank as a contractor. You need to find the right team, but a lot of them are massive collections of people doing virtually nothing but getting paid great daily rates. The trick is to look busy and wrap your team/yourself in a perceived sense of enigma and complexity. If you play your cards right, you can end up in a situation where no one will ask questions as long as you fire…

I have a theory that in most large companies the 80/20 rule applies. 20% of the engineers do 80% of the work.

Sure, because the other 80% of engineers have to clean up after the 20%.

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#220

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

prof1le wrote: post #196
crispyambulance wrote: post #178

My parents had been running their own tailor shop in the 80's, barely making ends meet, pulling in less than $20K a year. It wasn't for lack of business, father was a master tailor trained in Italy and capable of elite bespoke craftsmanship. They had as much business as they could handle. The problem was that they were charging what they thought the work was worth rather than what their customers were willing to pay.…

There were mentioned studies in the book "Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion" that mirrored what your parents experienced. Long story short, a jeweler was trying to move some turquoise and told an assistant to sell them at half price while she was gone. The assistant accidentally doubled the price, but the stones still sold immediately. Turns out there's a phenomenon where humans automatically associate price to…

Same for brown diamonds.
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