I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017) • Hacker News Board

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#211

Post by Macha » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 9:34 AM UTC

shaki-dora wrote: post #204

TeMPOraL wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s possible to leave traces of whatever inner conflict tortures you in your writing without even knowing. Identifying those borders on psychoanalysis. Even trained medical professionals have problems with that. > the disdain of the humanities in this thread (and generally on HN and the tech community) is just begging for an explanation It's simple - humanities as most of us here were exposed to, have high propens…

That’s sort of like a parody I would write to prove my point. You’re clearly emotional about the topic, to a degree that cannot be explained purely by doing a few interpretations in school. I don’t see, for example, this sort of venom directed at sports, even though I have heard more anecdotes about the dread of PE classes. I could also make the same sort of claim about science and math: namely that school did little…

Because many of us recognise (even if learned later in life than the time we were doing PE) the benefits of physical activity in terms of increased health and capability, which is not true for the time spent on humanities in education?

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#212

Post by Ensorceled » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 9:35 AM UTC

jtms wrote: post #139

_7fvc wrote: post #107

This article is fun to read. Incidentally, my daughter just took a test for a gifted program. She didn't study for it as recommended by our school district. She scored 95% in one subject. But the qualified cut-off rate is 98%! My eyes just rolled looking at that number. That means they only pick 98 and 99 percentiles. For a first grader to score that high, she needs to answer the exam perfectly. If you have some stat…

I was in the gifted program when I was in elementary school and I don’t recommend it. It took a kid like me who was already prone to social isolation and isolated him further. I voluntarily left the program after 2 years and was playing catch up socially and I wasn’t any better off academically. Don’t put your kids in that program.

It was the best thing that happened to both of my step kids. They met great people, learned amazing things, socialized with people who had common interests and talent. Best of all they stopped hating school and flourished.

I only regret it wasn't around when I was young.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#213

Post by usrusr » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 9:37 AM UTC

foxfired wrote: post #37

I was always afraid to read any classical work because no matter what you think you read, someone will tell you "Actually..." Then one day I read this beautiful quote about the old man and the sea: > “Then there is the other secret. There isn't any symbolism. The sea is the sea. The old man is an old man. The boy is a boy and the fish is a fish. The shark are all sharks no better and no worse. All the symbolism that…

On the other hand you have art talking about sensitive subjects that either cannot be talked about openly at all, or where the artist feels uncomfortable doing so. You can listen to whole albums of the B52s telling yourself that no LGBT topics are touched and it's already great fun, but the experience gets so much more interesting when you start reading between the lines.

And then there is the whole topic of non-deliberate creative decisions. I guess Tolkien was truly as convinced of not writing about his war experience as he liked to tell people, but "the enemy in the east" and so on, it all fits too well.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#214

Post by btilly » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 9:41 AM UTC

jtms wrote: post #139

_7fvc wrote: post #107

This article is fun to read. Incidentally, my daughter just took a test for a gifted program. She didn't study for it as recommended by our school district. She scored 95% in one subject. But the qualified cut-off rate is 98%! My eyes just rolled looking at that number. That means they only pick 98 and 99 percentiles. For a first grader to score that high, she needs to answer the exam perfectly. If you have some stat…

I was in the gifted program when I was in elementary school and I don’t recommend it. It took a kid like me who was already prone to social isolation and isolated him further. I voluntarily left the program after 2 years and was playing catch up socially and I wasn’t any better off academically. Don’t put your kids in that program.

I am sorry that your experience was so terrible, but the plural of anecdote is not data.

For a counter-anecdote, my experience of gifted programs is that it was the first place where I wasn't bullied for being more interested in books than sports. This didn't help me fit in with other kids my own age, but it did wonders for my self-confidence and significantly improved my odds of having a decent life.

My wife's experience is similar.

The moral is that gifted programs are not in and of themselves good or bad. What they are is good for some kids and bad for others. The trick is figuring out which is better for any particular kid.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#215

Post by jodrellblank » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 9:43 AM UTC

EliRivers wrote: post #189

skookumchuck wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tests are one of the hardest ways of doing so I've never understood how someone could master a subject and yet be unable to answer any questions about it. In my experience, people who did well on tests tended to understand the topic, and the people who didn't do well made excuses.

I've never understood how someone could master a subject and yet be unable to answer any questions about it. How about spoken English? I know a great many people who are able to express themselves clearly and gramatically - surely mastery of spoken English - but ask them what the rule is for order of adjectives or some such and many of them would even need to double check what an adjective is.

That's hardly being "unable to answer ANY questions"; try asking them which is more common: "the big red car" vs "the red big car", do you think they'd be unable to answer?

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#216

Post by learnstats2 » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 9:44 AM UTC

I work as a tutor and have tutored similar questions - sometimes I encourage students to think about 'how is the test-writer trying to test you?'

And, perhaps, that is what standardized tests are intended to test: can you anticipate and meet the arbitrary requirements of someone with power over you in a particular situation? If yes, you are very employable.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#217

Post by xxs » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 9:45 AM UTC

SimbaOnSteroids wrote: post #45

HarryHirsch wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the students only knew what their needs were. My students need "word problems". Their schooling didn't teach them how to deal with ambiguity or how to make a reasoned argument. Also, in real life you won't encounter the right answer plus four decoy answers. But they want check-a-box tests. They even went to complain to administration because they weren't getting any. Apparently, I'm asking erroneous [sic!] questio…

>Also, in real life you won't encounter the right answer plus four decoy answers. On the contrary, if you've ever looked for programming help on stack overflow you'll be quite familiar with the real life experience of being presented with a right answer and 4 or more decoys.

That's a simplistic way to put it (or just have a jab at stackoverflow).

Overall, if your question has an answer there, it's not a hard one...

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#218

Post by btilly » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 9:46 AM UTC

blackflame7000 wrote: post #205

jtms wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in the gifted program when I was in elementary school and I don’t recommend it. It took a kid like me who was already prone to social isolation and isolated him further. I voluntarily left the program after 2 years and was playing catch up socially and I wasn’t any better off academically. Don’t put your kids in that program.

I was also in the gifted program and the thing that helped me the most was getting involved in youth sports like little league, rec basketball, and soccer. It allowed me to be friends with both the smart kids and athletic kids. I can't stress enough how important youth sports are for kids

Let me guess. You don't have a coordination problem?

I do. I received about a year of therapy for the fact that my left hand quite literally doesn't know what my right hand is doing. That helped. But being clumsy still made school sports really unpleasant for me.

Just because sports was right for you doesn't mean that it is right for everyone.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#219

Post by learnstats2 » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 9:47 AM UTC

AllegedAlec wrote: post #168

megy wrote: post #33

I mean, so? She writes poems. Why should that mean she is good at analyzing poems? Are game players good at writing games, and vice-versa? Are people who eat a lot good at cooking? Are runners great at designing shoes?

Death of the Author is a bullshit idea. The only person who knows what the writer's intention was when writing a piece of literature is the author him/herself. Any alternative interpretation is fanfiction at best.

Would the question(s) be better if it asked it in a different way, i.e.

instead of "Dividing the poem into two stanzas allows the poet to―" the question could ask "The division of the poem into two stanzas has the effect of-"

rather than presuming to know what the author's intent was.

Re: I Can’t Answer Standardized Test Questions About My Own Poems (2017)

#220

Post by cmroanirgo » Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 9:48 AM UTC

> "My final reflection is this: any test that questions the motivations of the author without asking the author is a big baloney sandwich," she wrote. "Mostly test makers do this to dead people who can’t protest. But I’m not dead. I protest."