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Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appears to End in Crash

nytimes.com

211–219 of 219 posts

Re: Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appears to End in Crash

#211

Why do we give aid to space fairing nations? Couldn't the aid be better spent on our own space program?

you give aid to political allies that share a common view of what democracy is about, and face high military threats.

Budget for this lunar mission is probably extremely small compared to military spendings.

Re: Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appears to End in Crash

#212

Why do we give aid to space fairing nations? Couldn't the aid be better spent on our own space program?

Because if you just gave billions of dollars to Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, and Raytheon people would complain. So you give it to someone and make them buy from these guys.

Re: Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appears to End in Crash

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't they also the world's largest foreign aid recipient?

according to this[0], iraq and afghanistan get more aid from the usa than israel does. [0] https://www.concernusa.org/story/foreign-aid-by-country-gett...

Iraq and Afghanistan have each 5 times the population of Israel, and only 33% more aid than Israel. Also, both Iraq and Afghanistan are desperately poor countries against which the US waged war, causing further destruction. What's the reason for Israel's aid?

Re: Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appears to End in Crash

#214
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's tongue-in-cheek. I think it's dumb that criticizing hubris in the manner seen in this comment thread is seen as hateful just because hubris is part of someone's culture.

Well, I'm Israeli, and hubris is not part of my personal culture, but it is prevalent in Israel. IMHO it's a real problem for Israel because people here tend to be euphoric and unaware of the consequences of our decisions. On the other hand, it does make us more daring and in today's world it is a great way to "succeed"

> in today's world it is a great way to "succeed"

Yes, until you piss off too many people around you with your excessive confidence- which includes a sense of superiority and the feeling of being immune from the consequences of evil or hostile actions.

And if you made everybody around you an enemy rather than a friend, sooner or later you'll pay the consequences.

Re: Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appears to End in Crash

#215
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems Israel is doing just fine economically and technologically. So I don't get why US politicians still justify giving out O($billion) every year in foreign aid while there are ample opportunities to spend them in their own country.

Cause all the aid is conditioned on them using it to buy US military hardware. It's roundabout military spending.

> Cause all the aid is conditioned on them using it to buy US military hardware

Not true, only 3/4 of it. And it's not an explanation, otherwise they could give the same aid to any other country, but they don't.

"Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II."

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

Re: Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appears to End in Crash

#216
post #211

Why do we give aid to space fairing nations? Couldn't the aid be better spent on our own space program?

you give aid to political allies that share a common view of what democracy is about, and face high military threats. Budget for this lunar mission is probably extremely small compared to military spendings.

> share a common view of what democracy is about

So the US view of democracy is apartheid? Interesting.

Re: Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appears to End in Crash

#217
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and I'm sure they didn't get any tech or mission critical help from the US. Don't get me wrong, good on them for doing this, but let's not pretend like this happened in a bubble away from anyone else.

> I'm sure they didn't get any tech or mission critical help from the US What's your point? NASA got a bunch of help from Nazi scientists.

My point, which I'll just keep remaking here, is that pointing out the "super tiny" population of Israel is disingenuous since the intent is to show Israeli exceptionalism. If I was claiming "NASA is the best, way better than Israel whom NASA helped" then your whataboutism would be a valid critique. But I'm not saying that.

Pointing out the population relative to the US/China is the "Tony Stark built this in a cave from spare parts" argument, but that's not really what happened here. It's more "Tony Stark built this from a schematic given to him by Reed Richards and using parts gifted from Hank Pym" (to stretch my Marvel analogy as far as possible). It's still impressive, but that statement doesn't provide clarification to the accomplishment's significance.

TL;dr- "Israel did a cool thing, and they had lots of international help doing it" is the accurate statement on what happened.

Re: Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appears to End in Crash

#218
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

according to this[0], iraq and afghanistan get more aid from the usa than israel does. [0] https://www.concernusa.org/story/foreign-aid-by-country-gett...

Iraq and Afghanistan have each 5 times the population of Israel, and only 33% more aid than Israel. Also, both Iraq and Afghanistan are desperately poor countries against which the US waged war, causing further destruction. What's the reason for Israel's aid?

> What's the reason for Israel's aid?

Because they are our only truly stable ally in that extremely chaotic, highly strategic region.

Re: Israel’s Beresheet Spacecraft Moon Landing Attempt Appears to End in Crash

#219
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iraq and Afghanistan have each 5 times the population of Israel, and only 33% more aid than Israel. Also, both Iraq and Afghanistan are desperately poor countries against which the US waged war, causing further destruction. What's the reason for Israel's aid?

> What's the reason for Israel's aid? Because they are our only truly stable ally in that extremely chaotic, highly strategic region.

Hm. I see very well what the US does for Israel: 4.5 billion in military aid, constant international support (vetoed 44 UN security council resolutions against Israel), passed illegitimate laws in several states to punish those who support a boycott of Israel, recently recognized the illegal annexation of Jerusalem and the Golan Heights, puts orthodox Jews in charge of drafting peace plans with the Palestinians, etc.

But what does Israel do for the US? It's not very clear to me. The only thing I know of is intelligence. Is that enough? I think even Saudi Arabia provides much more support: military bases, etc.

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