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Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

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Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#211

Post by jjoonathan »

grawprog wrote: post #194
cobbzilla wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I know there are concerns with many commercial fish farming operations today) Couldn't sustainable fish farms, done right, solve this? Tree farms seem to work, iirc the amount of forested land in the US actually started increasing in the past few years.

Fish farms have their own problems especially open-pen ones they use for things like salmon. http://www.alexandramorton.ca/salmon-confidential-booklet/ Tree farms are also not a forest. There's no real ecosystem there. They're just rows of commercially viable trees planted and left until they're old enough to harvest.

... which provides an alternative to cutting down the forests for wood, which is why forested land is increasing.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#212

Post by isolli »

usrusr wrote: post #127
isolli wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was vegetarian for 20 years, vegan for 7, yet I started eating meat and fish about a year ago. Here are my thoughts: - I started eating animal products again for health reason; I believe many people can thrive on a vegetarian or vegan diet, but I couldn't. It makes me unhappy, but there I am. - Similarly vegetarian and vegan for a long time, my wife started craving animal products the minute she got pregnant. And a…

> limited consumption of animal products It would be more impactful get three people to reduce meat by 50% than to get one to reduce by 100%. Unfortunately, "meals that don't have a chunk of meat as their centerpiece but that are still far from vegetarian" does not have the same ideological zeal as veganism (speaking in the context of a western industrial background). When eating out (again: western cuisine), the mea…

I agree! This has been bothering me ever since I stopped eating vegetarian. My ideal dish would have lots of tasty vegetables with a side of meat. Unfortunately I suspect that most customers would consider they're not getting their money's worth.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#213

Post by cableshaft »

bleigh0 wrote: post #204
verasio wrote: post #99

China. Indonesia. Philippines. Vietnam. Sri Lanka. This chart says it all: https://www.statista.com/chart/12211/the-countries-polluting... They are everyone's oceans and these countries are disproportionately choking them with plastic. Blame must be focused on them for meaningful change to happen. I'm a foreigner living in one of these countries and it is shocking how absolutely careless and ignorant the majority of…

So called "developed" countries were once similarly careless with their waste. And their developed status was a result of such carelessness and the free expansion of their industries. It seems slightly unfair to expect developing countries to achieve a similar level of development via a sustainable methodology immediately, when that has not been the path for the richest countries in the world. (Given that developing…

So we should give all developing countries a pass on destroying the habitability of the planet because we used to be as bad ourselves when we didn't know better? While it may be 'fair', I don't think that's sustainable. Even if these countries eventually become 'developed' and start behaving better, there will be new countries that will become 'developed' to take their place, and we'll just keep having these issues over and over until it's too late.

We're already (collectively) fucking the ecosystems and wiping out tons of species of flora and fauna, and making the living situation of billions (and possibly trillions) of life forms on this planet more toxic and less comfortable all in the name of convenience and growth. And it seems like we're on a trajectory of only making things worse in the future.

We need to start doing something about it, the developed countries by being an example and by taking advantage of our desirable trade status by providing incentives (trade, foreign aid, whatever) for developing countries to clean up their act sooner than later.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#214

Post by jmngomes »

cesis wrote: post #44
cageface wrote: post #35

These stories rarely mention this for some reason but the bulk of the plastic junk in the ocean is discarded fishing nets, not consumer waste. Reducing the plastic waste you personally generate is still a good idea, of course, but if you really want to have an impact then stop eating fish. https://www.onegreenplanet.org/news/ocean-plastic-made-disca... https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/03/great-pacific-ga...

Farmed fish is already more than 50% of market share https://qz.com/730794/the-future-is-here-people-are-now-eati...

Farmed fish spend their lives in overcrowded and filthy enclosures (too much fish defecating and feeding in the same cubic meters of water). Their feed is ridden with chemicals and antibiotics.

It's the same issue as "normal" poultry vs "aviary" poultry.

I personally prefer to eat less fish and meat than eating animals that are bred and raised in awful conditions that optimize for revenue; the quality of the output speaks for itself.

- https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/farm-raised-fish-...

- https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/apr/01/is-farmi...

- https://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/factory-fa...

- http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1663604,0...

- https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/sep/10/scottish...

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#215

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

malvosenior wrote: post #206
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it will happen sooner than you think, with companies like Beyond Meat working hard to ultimately make plant protein "meat" both highly palatable and less expensive.

There are a lot of people (myself included) who actually enjoy real meat and would never switch, so no it won't be happening any time soon or at all really.

Eventually that may be a socially untenable practice, what with meat consumption being linked to so many ethical and environmental issues.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#216

Post by sah2ed »

bleigh0 wrote: post #204
verasio wrote: post #99

China. Indonesia. Philippines. Vietnam. Sri Lanka. This chart says it all: https://www.statista.com/chart/12211/the-countries-polluting... They are everyone's oceans and these countries are disproportionately choking them with plastic. Blame must be focused on them for meaningful change to happen. I'm a foreigner living in one of these countries and it is shocking how absolutely careless and ignorant the majority of…

So called "developed" countries were once similarly careless with their waste. And their developed status was a result of such carelessness and the free expansion of their industries. It seems slightly unfair to expect developing countries to achieve a similar level of development via a sustainable methodology immediately, when that has not been the path for the richest countries in the world. (Given that developing…

You’ve basically just described the conceptual idea behind what economists call the “environmental kuznets curve”.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuznets_curve#Environmental_...

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#217

Post by MayeulC »

I've been wondering how a fine on companies' products that are found in the wild could affect their behaviour.

Of course, that means forcing (degradation-resistant) mandatory identification of anything at any point of the supply chain, but I feel like it would incentive companies to, at the very least, educate their customers and encourage them to cleanly get rid of their product. It could also shift them to more eco-friendly packaging, and I wouldn't be surprised if some companies decided to implement their own recycling ecosystem.

Our government recently asked citizens to submit proposals on a few themes, so I ended up submitting that very one [1]. I am curious to see how it will go, or whether it will be considered at all.

[1]: https://granddebat.fr/projects/la-transition-ecologique/coll...

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#218

Post by [deleted] »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #215
malvosenior wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of people (myself included) who actually enjoy real meat and would never switch, so no it won't be happening any time soon or at all really.

Eventually that may be a socially untenable practice, what with meat consumption being linked to so many ethical and environmental issues.

[deleted]

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#219

Post by [deleted] »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #215
malvosenior wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of people (myself included) who actually enjoy real meat and would never switch, so no it won't be happening any time soon or at all really.

Eventually that may be a socially untenable practice, what with meat consumption being linked to so many ethical and environmental issues.

[deleted]

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#220

Post by lawlessone »

cableshaft wrote: post #207
dorfsmay wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't fish and prawns animals? Would you still considered a vegetarian if you ate them?

Some people consider that vegetarian, but I never understood that myself. When I was vegetarian, I didn't eat fish. I did eat eggs, though. Since they were unfertilized I didn't have a problem with them, and it helped me stick with the diet for as long as I did.

>Some people consider that vegetarian,

it's a christian cultural thing, mostly catholic. because the church decided fish aren't meat.

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