Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon • Hacker News Board

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#211

Post by psadauskas » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:16 PM UTC

How about going after Comcast and Verizon first, the actual tech monopolies? I already don’t use Facebook, I buy things online from places other than Amazon, and have email accounts that aren’t hosted by Google. However, all of that goes over Comcast’s network because that’s my only viable choice for Internet service. Also, while FAANG occasionally do things I don’t approve of, they don’t actively lobby congress for things that will make my use of the internet objectively worse (NN, SOPA, etc...).

But no, because Comcast has -bribed- donated to way more congresspeople than Google, because they’re better at playing that game.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#212

Post by enraged_camel » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:17 PM UTC

devoply wrote: post #196

oceanstone wrote: post #178

> The key components of the Warren plan include passing legislation that would designate companies with annual global revenue above $25 billion that provide marketplace, exchange, or third-party connectivity as “platform utilities” and prohibit those companies from owning participants on their platforms. As a Googler, speaking for myself, this seems like an interesting idea that could positively impact the tech scene…

I also see Elizabeth Warren has created a set of powerful enemies way too early that will do much to stop her from becoming America's first woman president. If you wanna do something like this wait until you are in office. These are not issues that your average American cares about.

With all due respect, I don’t think you speak for the average American.

edit: not sure why I'm getting downvoted, since I basically stated the truth: the parent poster doesn't speak for the average American.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#213

Post by acdha » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:17 PM UTC

yaacov wrote: post #176

Nitpicking here, but in Warren’s post she writes: > Google couldn’t smother competitors by demoting their products on Google Search. Isn’t this already illegal?

What about AMP, where failure to publish your content using their proprietary toolkit meant that you wouldn’t be featured at the top of the search results?

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#214

Post by duxup » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:17 PM UTC

devoply wrote: post #196

oceanstone wrote: post #178

> The key components of the Warren plan include passing legislation that would designate companies with annual global revenue above $25 billion that provide marketplace, exchange, or third-party connectivity as “platform utilities” and prohibit those companies from owning participants on their platforms. As a Googler, speaking for myself, this seems like an interesting idea that could positively impact the tech scene…

I also see Elizabeth Warren has created a set of powerful enemies way too early that will do much to stop her from becoming America's first woman president. If you wanna do something like this wait until you are in office. These are not issues that your average American cares about.

Ii that really a thing though?

Have we seen tech company lobbyists really push a lot of weight around? Companies that seemed to genuinely support net neutrality didn't seem to have much of any impact / participate all that much.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#215

Post by StreamBright » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:17 PM UTC

quadrangle wrote: post #179

pmcollins wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if a very capable, a hard working, effective person is able to increase their wealth by 20x, and in so doing increases my wealth by 2x without my doing anything, you'd be in favor of using the power of the state to prevent this from happening because it would increase inequality?

If you think the debate is purely about relative wealth, you are misunderstanding most of it. But even still: relative wealth distribution getting too extremely unequal has negative ramifications for any society, regardless of the absolute wealth. But again: that is NOT the issue in this case. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/02/22/697170790/anti... for more perspective, a bunch of discussion about antitrust i…

>>> relative wealth distribution getting too extremely unequal has negative ramifications for any society, regardless of the absolute wealth

Like what exactly?

I do not understand why people are upset over extreme wealth. I think Jeff Bezos deserves to be a billionaire and I would not want to live in a society that does not allow people like him succeed and accumulate this sort of money. The quetion is what happens with his wealth in the second and third generation. Historically in fedualism this was passed down to the next generation and the family would keep it until end of the feudalism era. In a capitalistic society it deisappears within 2-3 egenerations, especially with people like Bill Gates. Not sure what is the problem here.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#216

Post by swarnie_ » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:17 PM UTC

the_trapper wrote: post #194

I think breaking up the ISPs and media conglomerates would be much more impactful. I can't think of a single market segment where Google and Amazon lack effective competition. Facebook is already bleeding users, and how would you break up a social media company in an impactful way anyhow? Facebook's ventures outside of social media aren't even close to being monopolies.

> I think breaking up the ISPs and media conglomerates would be much more impactful.

While i agree with you wholeheartedly i don't know anyone who has ever got elected by attacking the media and big business.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#217

Post by khrbrt » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:18 PM UTC

fowkswe wrote: post #158

If there has ever been a monopoly, those 3 companies are it. I wont speak for social media and search, but Amazon has a complete stranglehold on retail in the United States. People keep saying 'retail is dead', thats bullshit, Amazon has a monopolistic stranglehold on the selling of all goods. If that weren't the case, small shop brick and mortar shopping would still be a thing.

Small shops are still a thing, but rising rents are as much to blame as Amazon for them closing their doors.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#218

Post by piaste » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:18 PM UTC

eanzenberg wrote: post #163

wybiral wrote: post #52

Google/Facebook/Amazon have the power to push any startup competition out of the market in ways that are hard to even enumerate. Think about all of the services, devices, and standards that they control. Watching the fanboys defend their favorite tech giant is incredible. These companies are not behaving in the markets or people's best interest and they are way too big, at a scale that dwarfs most of the worlds organ…

As long as those services are profitable and they can outcompete startups then there’s nothing illegal or wrong about that. There’s no right that startups need to survive or have bias to succeed.

There's no right that tech giants need to be allowed to exist in their current form, either.

If a person doesn't break any pre-existing laws, then they must not suffer any legal consequences, sure. And nobody is suggesting that Page and Brin should spend a minute in court or pay a cent in fines.

But a corporation isn't a person, it's a business instrument, and if the United States were to judge that the existence of that instrument is detrimental to the greater security / stability / welfare of the nation as a whole, they would have every right to write a new law to ban usage of that instrument, i.e. ban the existence of Google in its current form, as they once wrote a new law to ban the existence of the United Aircraft and Transport Corporation.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#219

Post by fastball » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:18 PM UTC

fowkswe wrote: post #158

If there has ever been a monopoly, those 3 companies are it. I wont speak for social media and search, but Amazon has a complete stranglehold on retail in the United States. People keep saying 'retail is dead', thats bullshit, Amazon has a monopolistic stranglehold on the selling of all goods. If that weren't the case, small shop brick and mortar shopping would still be a thing.

1. Small brick and mortar shopping is still a thing.

2. Amazon has literally thousands of online competitors, many of whom also have physical stores that get tons of traffic: Walmart, Target, BBB, Costco, Home Depot, Lowes, Pharmacies, etc., etc., etc.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#220

Post by your-nanny » Fri, Mar 08, 2019, 4:18 PM UTC

craftyguy wrote: post #172

fowkswe wrote: post #158

If there has ever been a monopoly, those 3 companies are it. I wont speak for social media and search, but Amazon has a complete stranglehold on retail in the United States. People keep saying 'retail is dead', thats bullshit, Amazon has a monopolistic stranglehold on the selling of all goods. If that weren't the case, small shop brick and mortar shopping would still be a thing.

Apparently no one around here has ever heard of Standard Oil.

a study of Standard Oil is really instructive. It is not a matter of there being no competition, it's a matter of having such market power that you can dictate rates for your competitors. Standard Oil got paid every time a railroad shipped a competitors oil!