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Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

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Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#211

Post by donaldknuth123 »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #196
tmaly wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We still cannot get a price list of medical procedures in the US thanks to the antitrust exemption provided in McCarran-Ferguson Antitrust Act of 1945. I think repealing this would be a good start. All other industries are required to provide price lists. My friend went to the ER recently for a sprained thumb. They wrapped it in some bandage and he got a bill for $14,000. His insurance is covering 80% but he is still…

Why did he go to the ER?

Depending on where you live an ER might be the only place you can go for an urgent medical issue. Was he supposed to wait a month to see a GP or drive across the state to find an Urgent Care?

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#212

Post by asark »

cletus wrote: post #162
chaosbutters wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

doesn't matter who is president in 2020, if the senate isn't blue. And right now, it doesn't look like the senate will even hit 50/50.

So there's a lot I could say about this. First is an example. As much as I, personally, liked (and continue to like) Obama as a person and as much as I agree with most of his policies, at the end of the day he was a pretty ineffective president. Why? Because he could get hardly any legislation passed (Obamacare aka the Affordable Care Act being the principle counterexample). He was a president who ruled by executive…

> He was a president who ruled by executive order.

Do you hold this opinion due to the nature of his orders? His rate of orders issued doesn't make this look plausible, on its own. Lowest per-year average since well before WWI, by the look of things.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#213

Post by golem14 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #115
komali2 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The deductible might be huge, and there's also this magic new thing I've just discovered (or United invented out of nowhere) called "co-insurance" and "maximum out of pocket" which I call "deductible #2." Then when you actually try to use the insurance you pay monthly for (but don't get to use until you reach the deductible #1 and #2?) they may just send the bill to you with a lot of legalese that amounts to "we don'…

All of the terms you listed are easily understandable concepts clearly explained on healthcare.gov or any health insurance company's website, and they've been a thing for decades. How much clearer can maximum out of pocket be? Edit: I do think in network and out of network should be easier/faster to figure out though.

Isn't there also a maximum lifetime benefit most US insurances stipulate, that isn't that hard to reach (like $1M or so ?)

My understanding is that past that point, you become mostly uninsurable, but maybe I'm wrong.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#214

Post by will_brown »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #196
tmaly wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We still cannot get a price list of medical procedures in the US thanks to the antitrust exemption provided in McCarran-Ferguson Antitrust Act of 1945. I think repealing this would be a good start. All other industries are required to provide price lists. My friend went to the ER recently for a sprained thumb. They wrapped it in some bandage and he got a bill for $14,000. His insurance is covering 80% but he is still…

Why did he go to the ER?

I think you are trying to make some point about wasting resource...but the ER is how accute injuries like this are generally treated. Sure there may be urgent care centers equipped for this, but that isn’t a guarantee and those often have more restrictive hours than an ER, especially acces to urgent care services like x-rays or mri/cat scans.

Sure in hindsight it’s a sprained thumb, but likely because of pain thought to be broken or worse...requiring x-ray and being set by a trained professional or maybe even surgery. It is a thumb so it would be less than ideal to lose feeling or mobility or the thumb itself (say there was nerve or circulatory damage).

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#215

Post by creaghpatr »

komali2 wrote: post #78
creaghpatr wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you get old you presumably qualify for Medicare.

Why not just make it so that you always qualify for Medicare?

Because it would go bankrupt and then no one would get Medicare.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#216

Post by bluetidepro »

triplewipeass wrote: post #13

When I was in my early 20s, I got myself a beefy life insurance policy that covers suicide after some waiting period that has expired many years ago. I know that in case of crippling illness I can always take the easy way out while preserving my assets plus the life insurance payout. My family would be taken care of.

I didn't know this was a thing (life insurance policy that covers suicide), very interesting.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#217

Post by golem14 »

systemtest wrote: post #37
swarnie_ wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Important distinction. Most western countries don't bankrupt you for getting old or sick. Oh boy, did i say something which wasn't Pro-'Merica?

I live in the Netherlands, if I would get cancer my contracting income would go to zero, I would have to get a government mortgage to eat my home and after depleting all my assets I would get welfare of about €1000 per month. Bye-bye retirement. The upside is that my healthcare expense would drop from about €5000 per year to €500 pear year.

That really depends on the cancer and the stage it's in. I think there are many cancers that are costly to treat but not that incapitating.

That said, worst case is probably as you say. Still better than in the US, IMHO.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#218

Post by donaldknuth123 »

chimeracoder wrote: post #198
flexie wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is barely in the top among developed nations, and it's not much better than the next 10-15 countries: https://www.wcrf.org/dietandcancer/cancer-trends/data-cancer... And it's notoriously difficult to compare. If cancer is registered as "discovered" early, because a for profit doctor starts treating it early, but the government hired doctor maybe doesn't, the early treated will statistically appear as living lo…

> The US is barely in the top among developed nations, and it's not much better than the next 10-15 countries: https://www.wcrf.org/dietandcancer/cancer-trends/data-cancer... . First, you're posting data that isn't relevant: that's the rate of cancer incidence , not the survival rates. That says nothing about how well the cancer is treated. Secondly, it's nonsensical to compare aggregated cancer statistics between co…

1. The data you posted is 20 years old.

2. The data is talking about 5 year survival rates and not actual survival. The US Healthcare system is great at keeping people alive who should have stopped treatment long ago.

3. The US is behind on every other major health indicator, Infant Mortality, Life Expectancy, Cardiovascular Disease, Obesity etc. Cancer isn't the only expensive illness in the US.

This thread is overrun with Astroturfers.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#219

Post by evolvedcleaning »

ZeroFries wrote: post #122
vamos_davai wrote: post #4

It's such an absurd expense that I wonder if I get diagnosed with cancer, I would just deny treatment, accept death, and hand my assets to loved ones. Not sure if anyone else thinks the same way.

I think that route is unpopular because we no longer have a sane relationship with death as a society. Religion, at least in theory, should help, but rates are declining there too. We'll pay any price to avoid the inevitable. We'll spend hundreds of thousands to get one more year of poor quality time with family, yet neglect to spend that time in better quality when health is taken for granted. If you had no family,…

This is precisely my plan. I gave away upwards of $1 million USD last year. I have no assets remaining, no career, parents, spouse or pet. I’m almost out of money finally.

40 something white American male college drop out with no social connections. Tinnitus and hyperacusis long term.

The biggest part is figuring out how to maximize the donation of my organs to the medical school by coordinating self termination in a country where suicide is still largely frowned upon.

I have no insurance and just yesterday I had serious chest pains for the first time on the right half. This is almost certainly the result of not taking care of my body. Better to self terminate and spare suffering and resources, and to donate the organs.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#220

Post by torpfactory »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #196
tmaly wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We still cannot get a price list of medical procedures in the US thanks to the antitrust exemption provided in McCarran-Ferguson Antitrust Act of 1945. I think repealing this would be a good start. All other industries are required to provide price lists. My friend went to the ER recently for a sprained thumb. They wrapped it in some bandage and he got a bill for $14,000. His insurance is covering 80% but he is still…

Why did he go to the ER?

Thumb injuries are actually treated very seriously (at least more seriously than you might think) by medical professionals because thumb injuries can have very high consequences for quality of life. You can live a totally normal life without an index finger but a missing or disabled thumb is a much more significant impact.
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