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France’s new high-speed trains

citylab.com

211–220 of 239 posts

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#211
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that monthly ticket has a start date printed on it before you compost it?

Of course it does. it's a monthly ticket valid from first of the month until end of the month. And even for the tickets without a date Why should the passenger be penalised when there are no working stamping machines in the train station? how is that the passenger problem?

> Of course it does

Dunno about France (OP gave no indication he was talking about a period ticket), but in the UK monthly tickets last a month from the time they begin (which is printed on the ticket at time of purchase). Most train tickets I've bought on the continent are undated - if you don't composte them then you could use them time and time again, which would be theft of service.

In the UK we have carnets which must be dated (albeit with a pen rather than a machine) before boarding the train. They give very little discount and users are often accused of fraud.

> Why should the passenger be penalised when there are no working stamping machines in the train station? how is that the passenger problem?

It's the passengers problem as they presumably can't board the train without a valid ticket. I'm not sure how competition or changing ownership would help, what you need are strong laws making the train company liable if it's not there.

Again in the UK we have "penalty fares", which are on the spot "fines" for "honest mistakes". Sadly the same doesn't apply to train companies, when they deny boarding despite a valid ticket, or you get threatened with legal action despite a valid ticket, you have to fight it, but they don't get fined.

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Err UK rail was famously terrible before "privatisation". Not that privatisation is the answer, nor that being public was at fault, but I'm not sure rewriting history is helpful. Looking at UK water companies being privatised so their owners can stuff them full of debt to get around the profit caps is probably a better case study. Profit percentage caps are silly because the obvious way to make more money is to make…

What you said about the water companies is not correct. They are regulated on the basis of price - the regulator sets a pricing formula for the industry RPI + X (i.e. X is the annual price increase above inflation). There are no caps on profit. The reason why companies carry large amounts of debt is that debt finance is much cheaper than equity. Given that a utility has stable cashflows, it makes sense for it to use…

Fair enough, I defer to somebody who obviously knows more. I admit I likely conflated several industries anyway ( I believe rail is on a 4% cap). However, there still seems to be questions around the debt, divididends, and asking Government for investment.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41152516

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/03/water-...

https://www.ft.com/content/5878de66-9c7d-11e7-8cd4-932067fbf...

Now obviously we live in a country of outrage, and fairly poor reporting, but the reporting does make it seem like we regularly get privatised profits and socialised losses.

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#213
post #7

Worth remembering that France hasn't fared very well in rail competition lately: the French-Government-controlled Eurostar chose the Velaro train sets from German Siemens to replace the existing TGV-derived train sets. It sparked a national outrage (because a company controlled by the French government should, in their opinion, only buy French) and a lawsuit from Alston (who makes the TGV).

"lately"? You are reporting something that was announced in 2010. It should now be put into the context of the French and German governments' wish to merge Alstom with Siemens. 'Lately' (2018), Alstom signed a deal to sell TGVs to Morocco.

In the railroad world, 10 years ago is lately.

Different industries run on different timescales, you know...

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#214
post #127
post #7

Worth remembering that France hasn't fared very well in rail competition lately: the French-Government-controlled Eurostar chose the Velaro train sets from German Siemens to replace the existing TGV-derived train sets. It sparked a national outrage (because a company controlled by the French government should, in their opinion, only buy French) and a lawsuit from Alston (who makes the TGV).

Eurostar trains are less comfortable than TGV trains, though.

Eurostar trains include both TGV and Siemens Velaro rolling stock.

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#215
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That doesn't have anything to do with protectionism. Are you confusing protectionism with state-owned companies? No I don't, I'm going to explain how the public train service works, it works by subsidising the unprofitable parts with the profitable parts. Which private train company would like to take an unprofitable train line? If you can find one, good luck. > Rail networks in the EU are becoming open as well (wh…

SNCF has been closing local/rural train stations? The exact same thing has been happening in Germany for decades. It's just bad federal policy, both in terms of allocation of funds for transportation as well as in terms of how they lead these publically owned train operators. And it's even possible to argue it's fine (I don't think it is), which is why it happened in the first place. Also: cars. France, if anything,…

Yep, France's TGV serves the same purpose as the original railroads in France: exerting control from Paris over the provinces. It is a centralization mechanism built for the Parisian elites.

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#216
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eurostar trains are less comfortable than TGV trains, though.

Eurostar trains include both TGV and Siemens Velaro rolling stock.

Do they? Well, in any case the seats of the train we were in were more cramped than I'm used to from any kind of train, including what I remember from TGV and ICE trains, though I admit I haven't experienced those as recently as the Thalys.

Is it possible they crammed more seats into the same carriages?

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#217
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Half an hour passing security and waiting for boarding Only 30 minutes sounds optimistic. You also didn't count the time to recover luggage. I've seen people bringing huge suitcases on high speed trains. They couldn't take them in cabin on a flight. Planes are good past the 2 hours flight time IMHO, or across countries where there are no interconnected high speed networks (I'm writing this with Europe in mind.)

I used to live a 7 minute taxi from Manchester airport. I would usually aim to arrive 30 minutes before wheelsup. It it took longer than 5 minutes from taxi to boarding it was unusual. In the rare occasions I checked luggage I'd arrive about t-45 and have a beer in the lounge. Never missed a flight. To get to west london it was far faster than the train and tube, although most of the time I was changing at Heathrow o…

And your children will hate you for it.

(i.e. the climate.)

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#218

> In 2021, France will be trying something completely new with its high-speed services. For the first time, rival companies will be allowed to vie with SNCF, competing with the national provider on major routes. Completely new for France, I guess? This has been reality in Italy for years: Trenitalia and Italo both operate high-speed trains on major routes. > In its double-decker carriages, moving around by wheelchair…

The double deck means you have to either go down or up from the 'balcony' where you enter the train.

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because the alternative to rail is cars. // Going by air is an alternative to rail for some journeys [eg within UK] too. Edinburgh-London for example.

Airports in city centers are pretty problematic and I don't think that they can handle the number of commuters that a railway can.

I wasn't contemplating it as an en masse replacement: from a traveller's perspective I consider flying for journeys where rail is an option (because cars are cheaper usually for short-medium, and walking/buses for short journeys).

You're right re city centers, perhaps I gave a bad example - in UK for longer journeys I like the train but flying is superior (for my use-case) usually - cheaper, faster.

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#220
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eurostar trains include both TGV and Siemens Velaro rolling stock.

Do they? Well, in any case the seats of the train we were in were more cramped than I'm used to from any kind of train, including what I remember from TGV and ICE trains, though I admit I haven't experienced those as recently as the Thalys. Is it possible they crammed more seats into the same carriages?

> Do they?

Yes, they do. The old Eurostars (e300) are the Alstom TGV TMST, and the new ones (e320) are the Siemens Velaro.

The e320 have an interior configuration very similar to the ICE-3s in Germany, although I believe that the seat pitch in the Eurostar is shorter than in the ICE.

The same is true for the e300s: they have the same disgusting, sweat-infused seats of the TGVs :)

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