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Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

workingwa.org

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Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#211

Post by jklein11 »

Isn't this what restaurant's do with wait staff in the US? I know in NJ wait staff are required to be paid minimum wage. Typically the restaurant pays them less (I think it was around $3) and then their tips get them to minimum wage. If they don't get enough tips the restaurant is required to pay them the difference(although in practice I'm not sure this ever happens)

If someone is willing to be paid $10 to deliver groceries, does it matter who is paying them $10 for it?

I've never used instacart before. Is the verbiage around leaving a tip lead the end user to believe that they are giving it directly to the person making the delivery?

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#212

Post by mawburn »

itronitron wrote: post #79
mawburn wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IHOP will adjust wages based on tips, they try to equal it out to minimum wage. My wife lasted about 3 weeks there. It was also by far the hardest I've ever seen her work, and for context we met in the Army.

I think I finally understand why my former very blue-collar coworkers would never leave a tip when we went out for lunch. I guess they had better information on the local businesses.

A lot of places' wait staff can make fairly decent money. They will usually make below minimum wage, but they often come out way ahead. So at some level, most businesses where you're expected to tip are using tips to subsidize wages. But there are some who take it to the next level, like IHOP or Instacart.

My mom was a waitress most of my life and made decent money, so I always tip 20-25% and a minimum of $5 unless I get extra shitty service. Depending on where you and your coworkers ate at, I would say they were just cheap asses.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#214

Post by [deleted] »

nitwit005 wrote: post #69
nck4222 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the logic behind the tipping system. It's, "tipping incentives employees to perform well because they'll make more money for doing a better job". It doesn't work that way either, but that's the rationale. Forcing people to tip to ensure people get paid enough money is a consequence of the system, not the reasoning why the system is implemented.

People do make the argument that you should tip generously because they're poorly paid.

[deleted]

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#215

Post by crawfordcomeaux »

_mdpn wrote: post #153
lenticular wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Collective action is essentially impossible among consumers though. Boycotts essentially never work. Not only that, but who are you going to use instead of instacart: Amazon Fresh? Uber? Or will you drive yourself to the store and buy it from minimum wage employees who work unstable hours? Also, what do you think the working conditions were like for whoever picked that asparagus?

>Collective action is essentially impossible among consumers though. It's not possible with an attitude like that. There is no government action that is forcing you to buy from Instacart. >Boycotts essentially never work. Tell that to Birmingham, Alabama. >Not only that, but who are you going to use instead of instacart: Amazon Fresh? Uber? Or will you drive yourself to the store and buy it from minimum wage employee…

I'm grateful for your response. I especially appreciate the "We can be concerned about more than one thing at a time." That's useful language I can use in the future.

I'm wondering what could be possible if a group of people (say, some in prison?) started saying "We peacefully revoke consent to be governed this way and request immediate transformative justice in the form of a justice system that allows us to craft our own path to recover from the wounds inflicted upon us by ourselves, our family, and our society free from imprisonment."

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#216

Post by draw_down »

sofaofthedamned wrote: post #195

I'm not an American so looking at this from afar - but according to this tips go straight to 'Shoppers'? Are they actually doing something completely different? https://www.instacart.com/help/section/200761964#11500564332...

The tips go straight to the shoppers, yeah. And then their pay gets, you know, "adjusted" (in Instacart's favor) in the amount of the tip.

The whole point of the tip is that it is supposed to be a bonus on top of the worker's normal pay. Instead, here it is displacing the money that Instacart would have otherwise paid them.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#217

Post by oarsinsync »

lenticular wrote: post #193
oarsinsync wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment suggests that it's ok to directly support bad businesses because you're probably also indirectly supporting bad businesses. If that's not what you meant, can you please clarify?

Moreso that participating in modern society is impossible without doing business with companies who have unsavory labor and environmental practices. I'm not commenting on morality. Expecting some sort of change to come from spontaneous, collective consumer action is ridiculous. This is especially true when most consumers in America are not on financially stable ground themselves, and can't afford to spend more money…

> Expecting some sort of change to come from spontaneous, collective consumer action is ridiculous.

Does that mean you believe that collective consumer action had absolutely nothing to do with Travis no longer remaining as CEO of Uber?

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#218

Post by finnh »

burger_moon wrote: post #77
tedivm wrote: post #10

There's a related blog post up on Medium by this same group (Working Washington) where they placed the same order, once with tip and once without, so people could directly compare. From my perspective Instacart is stealing from its customers and workers by doing this. I'm a huge fan of instacart (my fiance and I use it regularly), but this is definitely going to push me away from the platform. At a minimum I'm going…

I love how even knowing the company is stealing from their employees isn't enough to get you to drop using their service. I'm going to send at most 3 angry tweets about this before I forget about it and move on to the next thing to be upset about today.

GP is also tipping in cash, forcing instacart to pay the full boat and returning tip to its rightful place as additional (and untaxed!) income.

Seems like a not-bad approach.

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#219

Post by klathzazt »

cribbles wrote: post #100
B-Con wrote: post #32

> That's right: the customer's tip doesn't get added to the worker's check — it just gets deducted from what Instacart pays. In other words, up-front tips go to Instacart, not to the worker. My understanding is that the Fair Labor Standards Act does not allow for employers to whithold tips.[0] Gratuity/tip is a legally recognized concept. You can't just throw the word in your app and do what you want with the money i…

Instacart delivery workers are classified as independent contractors, which allows the company to flout basic labor laws. This is commonplace in digital age 'gig economy' jobs, but dates back to the early days of food delivery - e.g., most pizza delivery drivers are classified as independent contractors. That having been said, the concept of defining contractor wages in relation to customer tips is new to me. I could…

I would agree, if the app didn't say "tip for delivery person" instead of "tip for instacart" or something maybe more ambiguous like "tip." Take a look at the screenshots of their app being discussed here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/bizcarson/2018/04/24/instacart-...

Re: Instacart paying 80 cents an hour because worker received a large tip

#220

Post by kemitche »

warp_factor wrote: post #107
EpicEng wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're only hurting the workers; their employer's don't care.

That's exactly what they want you to think, and that's why this whole tipping nonsense continues. If you stop tipping, Workers will not accept to work for low wages anymore. Bu continuing to tip, you indirectly hurt workers.

I agree with this 100%. It's the same short-sighted approach that led to teachers getting paid pittances and forced to buy supplies out of pocket.

By in the short-term propping up those employees, we reduce the overall pressures to improve their conditions / negotiate better wages, and we've somehow managed to shift the blame from the employer to the employees and customers/students.

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