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My Parents Are Flat Earthers

jameshfisher.com

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Re: My Parents Are Flat Earthers

#211
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same. There is no logical difference between believing in flat earth and believing in spermless conception

There is one difference here though: we have observed parthenogenesis in nature, so we know it can occur. We have not observed anything like a 'flat earth'.

But during those observations no one ever ascribes divinity to it. Instead, a scientific explanation is sought. If one believes that Jesus and the parthenogentic shark were the same phenomenon, then one should do some soul searching to ask why one does does not seek the same category of explanation. It is a defect in the seeker, not a difference in the phenomenon (a fixable defect).

Re: My Parents Are Flat Earthers

#212
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are many reasons why people believe their religions. What are those reasons in your opinion?

Religions distill generations of solutions to psychological problems we all face. Job: what do you do when tragedy strikes, when it feels like God and Satan have plotted against you? Don't destroy your own foundation; the tragedy wasn't your fault. Abraham and Isaac: if sacrifice makes a better future, what if we sacrifice the thing we cherish most in hope of the best possible future? God will never expect you to sac…

Couldn't be said better, but nihilism can be solved by means of responsibility. And psychological problems by therapy, assuming you live a good life (1% or the privellage part of the world)

Re: My Parents Are Flat Earthers

#213
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe both you and the GP are correct. Moreover it generalizes even further and includes, for example, the identity politics dogma of the modern left. These beliefs about systematic injustice are more than just rational arguments, they are themselves an important component to an emotional identity, a key to understanding a complex, suffering world, and hence a way to see possible solutions to that suffering. (Als…

I struggle with Buddhism, only because while it is the only major religion that actually makes sense to me, I can't overcome the cultural disconnect as a white westerner, attempting to adopt ways of thinking which are so culturally different & abstract. Science at this juncture is the only method of looking at the world which appears rational to me, however unfortunately science doesn't have answers to the poetry of…

If you struggle, I recommend this: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWY_DgicYlqy6g96OiRKR... - dhamma on air. Some Danish guy who was medical doctor (used to be AI researcher ) answers around 3 questions per video. The answer from the questions are the valuable ones.

Re: My Parents Are Flat Earthers

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. — K.Marx

"The gulags are a great idea" - Lenin. Marxists don't deserve a seat at the table of moral philosophy, no matter what your professor might have told you

By the same logic, neither does liberalism (based on the writings of philosophers such as John Locke), since it must be responsible for the actions (sometimes horrific) of every liberal state, or even any state that claims to be liberal, no?

Re: My Parents Are Flat Earthers

#216
post #205

I read quite a bit of the discussion here, and I’m struck: People railing against anti-scientific attitudes by spouting the first shit they made up that makes some intuitive sense to them about psychology and/or group dynamics. I wonder if anyone else sees the irony?

> People railing against anti-scientific attitudes by spouting the first shit they made up that makes some intuitive sense to them about psychology and/or group dynamics. How is making hypothesis anti-scientific? If anything, it's the basis of science. What's anti-scientific about flat-earther is how they ignore evidence. This is 100% what we discuss when we talk against flat-earther. Can you show me any comment here…

Look, I really don't want to be antagonistic here, but this is a pet peeve of mine re: science. Plus psychology and group dynamics in particular are a big part of my field... so I'm going to engage here, and I just want you to know before I start that I'm doing it in good faith.

Framing what is happening in thread as "making hypotheses" is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

A hypothesis is a guess about the causal structure relevant to a narrow question that is formulated to be falsifiable. Normally it's generated from a deep understanding of the domain and is actually a question about an aspect of that domain that isn't yet clear. "Is it like THIS or like THAT? How could we tell the difference between those worlds?"

It's like debugging, actually. You see a bug in your software, and you know something, probably a lot, about the overall program. That lets you imagine what, specifically, might be going wrong, so you form guesses about that, and you check those guesses. You can check by just watching the values of variables as they move around the system until you see something anomalous. You can also check by predicting what might happen given certain inputs, and you send those inputs to verify that you are right, and to give you clues about where to investigate further. Finally you notice the part of the program that is almost certainly the source of the problem, and then you form a model of what is supposed to happen, and you change the code to reflect your new understanding until the inputs match the expected outputs. Sometimes the answer is a small change, and sometimes it's a major structural or conceptual change.

That is a scientific investigation that involves real hypothesis formation and testing.

Suppose instead that your well-meaning, non-technical uncle saw the bug. He might suggest you restart the computer. Whether he's right that that would fix the immediate problem is virtually irrelevant: HE doesn't have any idea if it would fix anything, and if it did fix something it wouldn't actually address whatever the underlying technical problem actually is. It may be an issue that you know--because you understand the domain--couldn't possibly be solved with a restart. Your uncle doesn't know anything, he's just parroting stuff he's heard before about how to "fix computers." In other words, he's just making shit up. Spouting whatever makes intuitive sense to him given his total lack of domain expertise. It's all well-meaning, and done in good faith, but...

Your uncle did not, in any meaningful sense, generate a "hypothesis" about your software bug.

What I am saying in my original post is that this thread is full of your well-meaning, non-technical uncle.

And it's particularly grating to me because the "program" in question here is science itself, and the uncles are signaling their group membership in Team Science by doing something they seem to believe is science-like, but in fact is not.

And further the not-science-like thing the people in this thread are doing is structurally identical to the people they are signaling against. The difference is that the people in this thread have slightly more sophisticated models of things like gravity and distinguishing plausible information from implausible information.

Flat earthers are a particularly central example of believing some shit they made up, that makes intuitive sense to them given their lack of domain expertise. The people in this thread, making their guesses about psychology and group dynamics, are doing the same activity in the same way, but just in a domain that isn't as obvious.

It bothers me. Rant over.

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