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Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

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Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does “sacrificing privacy” mean something other than “seeing personalized ads”? What’s the difference?

You may think it's just personal ads, but ones and zeroes have a tendency to spread far and wide https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/nepxbz/i-gave-a-b...

Yeah, IMO that’s also a lot worse than what people are going after Google/Facebook for.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the concept of corporate free speech, person-hood and "too big to let fail."

Freedom is assembly and freedom of speech add up to freedom of group speech, including unions, political groups, ethnic groups, and so on. I don't know why corporations would be special groups without that right. But, yeah, corporate personhood and bailouts need to be revisited. It's too bad that we need to have a functional policital culture to make any significant changes like that.

There is already limited liability of the whole in lieu of personal rights... there doesn't need to be any reason to restrict rights of corporations beyond any typical group.

Assembly is fine, but as far as I'm concerned, any organization that accepts donations for political purposes should be required to have open books, outlining where donations come from, and not allowing donations from foreign sources, including international conglomerates.

That's just where I stand... I go very far on personal liberty, and the ability to form groups with public receipts, but that's where it should end.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#213
post #126

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I own some Apple stock. I don’t influence in any meaningful way how Apple spends its money. I don’t influence in any meaningful way their corporate policy. The owners of Apple, save for a few individuals, don’t have a real say in how Apple uses its freedom of speech. Apple is not a group of people coming together in the same way political organizations are and Apple/Google/Exxon, etc. have far more money to send on p…

You can sell your shares if you think Apple is spending money that is not good for making its shareholders more money. You selling shares will have non zero impact on the market price of Apple shares.

And Apple can have COMPLETELY open books for transparency if they choose to donate or fund political advertising and/or support. Individuals have rights. Corporations are a bargain for limited liability and should have limited rights as a result.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#214
It seems as thought cause and effect are reversed here. It’s really capitalism that corrupted Google and Facebook:

> In Google’s early days, Page and Brin were wary of exploiting the data they collected for monetary gain, fearing it would corrupt their project. They limited themselves to using the information to improve search results, for the benefit of users. That changed after the dot-com bust. Google’s once-patient investors grew restive, demanding that the founders figure out a way to make money, preferably lots of it.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#215
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations exist to limit the liability of owners, in particular to decrease risk to owners. Given that owners of corporations are given such special treatment, it makes perfect sense that such an organization does not inherit the rights of the citizens that are protected from the results of the corporation's actions.

Corporate personhood cuts both ways. If a corporation doesn't have free speech rights or any of the rights of a person, does it have legal obligations? Can it be sued? Can it enter into a contract and be held to it's terms? The ability of courts to hold corporations accountable under the law and the constitution, in the United States, also relies on the notion of corporate personhood. The notion that people do not lo…

All corporations have limited liability, the limits vary as do the requirements. The fact is, they only exist because the government permits them and assigns these rules, there's no practical reason that non-living entities cannot be restricted in exchange for those benefits assigned. Except now it would take a constitutional amendment to overcome supreme court precedent.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come to the dark side. It’s glorious (with maybe one or two minor issues).

> one or two minor issues Don't be fooled. By minor he means "Yes, the kernel panics on boot, but the kernel did load."

Nothing like that at all.

It boots completely fine to a blank, black screen with no errors at all.

Completely minor. Just need to set a few kernel options to make it work properly.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations exist to limit the liability of owners, in particular to decrease risk to owners. Given that owners of corporations are given such special treatment, it makes perfect sense that such an organization does not inherit the rights of the citizens that are protected from the results of the corporation's actions.

What that means in practice is that corporations that are friendly to the establishment can say whatever they want, and those that oppose the establishment are subject to prosecution.

Evidence? This was a relatively recent decision. If what you say is true, there should be mountains of relatively recent evidence for it in the US. Otherwise you're just promoting a groundless personal theory.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What that means in practice is that corporations that are friendly to the establishment can say whatever they want, and those that oppose the establishment are subject to prosecution.

Evidence? This was a relatively recent decision. If what you say is true, there should be mountains of relatively recent evidence for it in the US. Otherwise you're just promoting a groundless personal theory.

This is human nature. Chelsea Manning got prosecuted, while all the other leakers don't. People with bumper stickers are more likely to get pulled over. Look at what European countries do to crack down on speech.

McCain-Feingold was only law for under a decade.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#219
Years ago I thought it was the government that was destroying the internet and the open frontier of human communication. Over the last 10 years I've understood it to be the google and facebooks of the world that have a vested interest in command and control of internet consumers all the while training a new generation to think, act and do it their way.

Re: Thieves of Experience: How Google and Facebook Corrupted Capitalism

#220
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you see Google and Facebook as equals in terms of badness? Honestly, I’ve always perceived Google as less insidious than Facebook. To me FB is more in your face, channeling your behavior. Google seems more passive and delivers more utility. What am I missing?

Google's surveillance system has more reach that Facebook's. Both are extensive, but it's pretty common to find webpages that contain no facebook tracking but do contain google tracking. In fact it's pretty rare to find websites that don't contain any google tracking. And I can avoid Facebook's gaze by using email, but if I use email almost inevitably somebody I want to email will be using gmail, meaning any messages…

Or android problem. Or google docs problem, .....
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